Has anyone used ................

[formerly known as]

............. an air powered stapler for securing plastering lath? The thought of lots of lath nailing is not filling me with joy!

 

[Roger H]

Would a nail gun not suffice?

 

[formerly known as]

I ask specifically because I have access to a stapler as opposed to a nail gun ...........................

 

[livias]

When I investigated this I was unable to find staples that were both stainless steel and long enough. YMMV

 

[Penners]

I've never tried it, FKA, but my uninformed reaction would be to suspect the strength and durability of a thin staple, as compared with a nail - particularly if the staples are not stainless steel.

 

[Toby Newell]

aaaaaaaaargh….

if I mentioned that to Mr Dunn my lime plasterer friend that is what he would say, only in a much more cockney accent.

things which go 'bang!' are the enemy of lime plasterers. Apparently.

I admit, hammers and nails go bang.

But in a much more lathe and plaster friendly way.

zinc coated / galvanized clout nails are the way to go. Apparently.

http://www.rdunnlimeplastering.co.uk

He may give you the time to help.

(just don't tell him I posted the link)

I worked with him for several months on a project, he definitely cares about his job (as I do) and from the looks of it, is very good.

(just for fun, tell him you were thinking of using an impact driver to screw them on then hold the phone at arms length)

 

[Toby Newell]

and just to be even more annoying @penners

stainless steel is far weaker than normally hardened and tempered steel, so the only time SS fixings are stronger than normal steel is if the normal steel is a low grade, mild steel which has no hardening treatment at all.

 

[plasticpigeon]

I assume it was the corrosion resistance and not the strength of stainless steel that prompted Penner's suggestion.

 

[Toby Newell]

I assume it was the corrosion resistance and not the strength of stainless steel that prompted Penner's suggestion.

assuming the stainless is the softer more expensive more corrosion resistant 300 series and not the more usual harder 400 series used in fixings and that the firing pin of the pneumatic gun was some super hard exotic stainless alloy and not tempered hardened tool steel which might leave ferrous particles on the stainless surface thereby seeding corrosion in the caustic lime environment you might be onto something.

as it is I would of thought zinc galvanic steel staples would be better than stainless (theoretically speaking) if staples were a good idea in the first place.

Apologies again for my annoying nature.

And my four years as a metallurgist and materials engineering student.

And research in an international metal research institute.

That specialised in plating.

I'll shut up now.

Carry on.

Did I mention Zinc galvanised clout nails and patience already? I did. Sorry.

 

[88v8]

It's certainly easy to twist the head off stainless fixings. If a screw refuses to drive fully, I throw it away when I take it out, drill the hole a little larger and try a new one.
On the car, I never use them in stressed situations, and they have a habit of fretting and jamming when trying to run the nuts on.
My experience of staple guns, at least those hand operated, is that they're pretty feeble.

For lathe, what about copper nails? OK you have to drive them by hand.

Ivor

 

[formerly known as]

Firstly - re. stainless v galvanised - totally agree on the fact that stainless fixings are weaker, and it would appear that galvanised fixings stand up well to use in lime plasters and renders. I do wonder at times if we all adhere blindly to specifications without questioning them.

Don't get me on a recent conversation with an architect furiously stating that hydrated lime was rubbish - Almost 20 years of using it tells me the opposite.

Anyway, back on topic, I have tried a friends stapler with my compressor and it works very well .............. very long staples with a reduced width to the face edge. I think that 2 staples per fixing point will do the job - with no hammering shaped rsi. hopefully.

 

[Flyfisher]

The 'historic building specialist' company that re-rendered our G2* timber frame used an air-driven stapler and stainless staples to affix the new laths. Our CO seemed quite happy with their work and reputation. :wink:

 

[formerly known as]

that is the first that I have heard of someone else using a stapler for lath work - assume that 'rendering' was external as opposed to internal 'plastering' , hence the use of stainless?

 

[TheRoost]

I assume it was the corrosion resistance and not the strength of stainless steel that prompted Penner's suggestion.

assuming the stainless is the softer more expensive more corrosion resistant 300 series and not the more usual harder 400 series used in fixings and that the firing pin of the pneumatic gun was some super hard exotic stainless alloy and not tempered hardened tool steel which might leave ferrous particles on the stainless surface thereby seeding corrosion in the caustic lime environment you might be onto something.

as it is I would of thought zinc galvanic steel staples would be better than stainless (theoretically speaking) if staples were a good idea in the first place.

Apologies again for my annoying nature.

And my four years as a metallurgist and materials engineering student.

And research in an international metal research institute.

That specialised in plating.

I'll shut up now.

Carry on.

Did I mention Zinc galvanised clout nails and patience already? I did. Sorry.

There are that many different types & grades of 'stainless steel', the grouping they are put under as being 'stainless' doesn't do them justice at all.

A certain well known DIY chain used to sell decent quality carbon steel/galv nails and fixings, but these days they sell cheap rubbish, being incredibly soft and poor quality - definitely not to any European steel standard.

Copper nails are good, I use 2mm panel pins for beading etc. but they are difficult to hammer in straight in harder timbers, I sometimes end up pre-drilling.

Does anyone know of a decent fixings supplier that actually states the grade of steel they use?

 

[Flyfisher]

Screwfix sells a wide variety of 'stainless' fixings in both 'A2' and 'A4' grades, clearly stated on their website. Google makes it pretty easy to find out more about what these grades mean, e.g.: http://www.westfieldfasteners.co.uk/Ref_Grades_of_Stainless_Steel.html

I do sometimes wonder if there's a tendency to over-analyse these things - it's not as if we're maintaining nuclear reactors or need to have certified traceability of all our materials right back to the name of the quality engineer who signed off the nails made by the local blacksmith, after suitable laboratory batch testing of course

It's a wonder that our period homes were ever built at all without the benefit of building regulations and materials scientists :lol:

 

[Penners]

it's not as if we're maintaining nuclear reactors or need to have certified traceability of all our materials right back to the name of the quality engineer who signed off the nails

Maybe not now, but it's only a matter of time...

 

[Flyfisher]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

(why am I laughing, you're probably right :shock: )

 

[malcolm]

Yesterday I spent a few hours trying to knock lath nails into a relatively tight space through lath onto bits of wood attached to a window which weren't really stiff enough. It took about 8 hammer taps per nail and as I am doing the work outside each one echoed across the street.

This morning I bought myself a nailer. It is brilliant! The rest of the lath was finished in about an hour and 600 nails with only dull thuds like a silenced gun to disturb the neighbours.

The nails are only 1.2mm diameter and the heads are small, but they are galvanised unlike the 2mm nails originally used. If the nails are fired at different angles and more than one nail is used it should hopefully get around any issues caused by head size. I bought an air powered nailer for £135 as reviews of the electric ones didn't seem completely favourable. (I already have the air compressor).

PS - you already need traceability of materials when you are doing structural steel work. I have moved on to wood for my structural work but am finding it very difficult to weld.