Happy - but not so happy!

[Feltwell]

One corner of the cellar at Feltwell Towers has always been damp, but it was right below a window that had seen better days - I figured it was rain blowing in. Cellars and damp is pretty normal anyway.

But - not long ago I finally got around to an overhaul of said window, so no rain was coming in and I expected the wall to dry out - but it didn't seem to be doing so.

Right outside the window is a clay gully trap, with a downpipe above it. I'd always been a little suspicious of it, though I know the original clay drains were replaced with plastic by a previous owner, so I thought all was OK. Not much water flows into this drain.

Last night it was hammering it down here - and a little puddle of water formed at the base of the cellar wall, with bubbles being formed, clearly coming through the brickwork. I've not seen that before, and there really is nowhere near the cellar window for water to soak into the ground, externally it's a tarmac drive and that is a high spot.

So suspicions fell on the drain again. I lift a manhole on the drive, chuck a bucket of water down the gully and sure enough it wooshes through the manhole with the no apparent problem, However, today, in the dry, I stuck a hosepipe into the drain and ran water down it - sure enough, 2 hours later a little water appears in the cellar - not much though, not as much as last night. So I pop out and buy some fluorescent drain dye, which is really powerful stuff - the whole small pot gets tipped into the gully, which instantly turns neon yellow! Hosepipe back on again.

2 hours later and the water in the cellar is coming through stained faintly yellow............

So I'm happy that I have at least found the source of a problem, that corner of the house is damp and I wasn't sure why, other potential sources had been eliminated. What I'm not happy with though is that I've got to dig up my tarmac drive, and tarmac is impossible to patch without it being blindingly obvious.

I could look at getting the drain lined - but I suspect it's the joint between the gully and the plastic that is the issue, not sure lining would sort that. There is also a hidden Y junction on this pipe under the tarmac with no manhole (), so it could be that.

Joy. Deep, deep Joy. I think I know what I'm doing this weekend!

 

[Mrs McG]

Worth getting a camera down there first to see if it is the joint that’s the problem or whether roots have cracked through the pipe?

 

[Feltwell]

No, it’s well away from any plants, surrounded by buildings. I was going to get a camera survey but I’ve concluded now with my dye that it’s not worth it.

 

[RBailey]

What I'm not happy with though is that I've got to dig up my tarmac drive, and tarmac is impossible to patch without it being blindingly obvious.

Could you just "skim" the rest of the tarmac to blend it in?
(No idea or experience in tarmac, just thinking out loud.)

 

[malcolm]

I recall it being a new driveway so it would be a shame to dig it up. A repair might be possible - the drain repair people poke a flexible lining in to the damaged area and inflate it with a balloon so the lining sticks to the walls of the pipe. I've never tried it or researched it but for a water drain it might well be a possibility.

 

[noj]

If it might be the Y, and you know where that is, can you dig a 'test pit'. If the problem is there that can be fixed and then reinstated with a manhole requiring no tarmac patching?

If you're lucky

 

[Feltwell]

I'm hoping it's the bit immediately in front of the gully, where it connects to the (presumably) plastic pipe. If it is I reckon I can get away with a relatively small hole, maybe a foot square or so - and it's tucked away round a corner out of immediate sight as you walk up the drive, so it's not *too* bad. If it's the Y piece then it's much more of a pain, in part because I've no idea where the Y is, but hopefully excavating in front of the gully will tell me that or at least give me more of an idea. Putting an access chamber in above the Y is an interesting idea, but my other covers are actually block paving ones filled with tarmac so they blend in, so it would still stand out!

I've just got a feeling that I'll dig up in front of the gully and find that some bodging sod has just pushed a plastic pipe up to it, rather than using a proper adaptor. We shall see. I did think about lining, but if it's a fitting that's missing or come out then I'd rather do a "proper" fix.

Fun fun fun!

 

[LadyArowana]

I recall it being a new driveway so it would be a shame to dig it up. A repair might be possible - the drain repair people poke a flexible lining in to the damaged area and inflate it with a balloon so the lining sticks to the walls of the pipe. I've never tried it or researched it but for a water drain it might well be a possibility.

A friend had it done and apparently it was brilliant and saved ripping up lots of garden. Unfortunately the friend lives in Sydney so a link to the contractor probably not useful.

 

[Feltwell]

Well, today I got the disc cutter out and started slicing up the driveway!

Anyway, I was finding nothing - started next to the gully and gradually worked my way out, kept pouring water down the gully but although the soil was very moist there was no leak - until eventually I reached the Y junction with another pipe. Could it really be this far out? I'd been digging holes below each fitting and none were filling with water. So I worked back along where I'd been, this time with a hosepipe pouring water constantly down the gully. Hang on a moment, this bit feels damper than it did earlier - Eureka, cleaned away more muck and there was a drip - not quite sure how I missed it, I guess it's hard when it's all muddy, but there is a crack in the clay pipe right next to the gully.



Hard job - well compacted MOT stone, digging out about 2' below the driveway in a very confined space, I'm too old for this! The muscles are feeling it tonight.

Pleased though that I found it, took out a bit more tarmac than I needed to but not much - I'll take all that old clay pipe out back to the newer plastic pipe and do a proper job. I don't think lining would have worked there, and I doubt that crack would have been visible on a camera survey, so I feel less guilty at hacking the tarmac up! This bit is at least tucked out of the way behind our porch, so the patch shouldn't stand out too badly once it's faded in.

Now I need to do the actual fix, and hope that I can very carefully cut out the clay pipe and not break the gully, otherwise the job gets a lot more awkward. A diamond disc on a grinder and very carefully cut through the collar, just like I successfully did on another gully not long ago. New plastic pipe bits and rubber converter to join to the gully, few bags of MOT stone and then Screwfix do a tarmac repair kit which gets good reviews..

 

[Stevers]

It's amazing how the old clay drains can do that, I didn't have a single pipe run in my foul drainage without something being broken in it. I am also sort of relieved that I'm not the first person to hook old clay gullies up to spanking new plastic drainage. To re-use the gully for the scullery I even had to epoxy the spigot back on - now that might be a first! From being down a hole, the old gullies were raised to be flush with the concrete so that they wouldn't fill with leaves - much better!

 

[a twig]

Excellent work - well done for grabbing the bull by the horns and getting stuck in - definitely one of those KitKat jobs that would be all too easy to keep kicking down the road

 

[Lacan07]

Well, today I got the disc cutter out and started slicing up the driveway!

Anyway, I was finding nothing - started next to the gully and gradually worked my way out, kept pouring water down the gully but although the soil was very moist there was no leak - until eventually I reached the Y junction with another pipe. Could it really be this far out? I'd been digging holes below each fitting and none were filling with water. So I worked back along where I'd been, this time with a hosepipe pouring water constantly down the gully. Hang on a moment, this bit feels damper than it did earlier - Eureka, cleaned away more muck and there was a drip - not quite sure how I missed it, I guess it's hard when it's all muddy, but there is a crack in the clay pipe right next to the gully.

View attachment 10440 View attachment 10442 View attachment 10443

Hard job - well compacted MOT stone, digging out about 2' below the driveway in a very confined space, I'm too old for this! The muscles are feeling it tonight.

Pleased though that I found it, took out a bit more tarmac than I needed to but not much - I'll take all that old clay pipe out back to the newer plastic pipe and do a proper job. I don't think lining would have worked there, and I doubt that crack would have been visible on a camera survey, so I feel less guilty at hacking the tarmac up! This bit is at least tucked out of the way behind our porch, so the patch shouldn't stand out too badly once it's faded in.

Now I need to do the actual fix, and hope that I can very carefully cut out the clay pipe and not break the gully, otherwise the job gets a lot more awkward. A diamond disc on a grinder and very carefully cut through the collar, just like I successfully did on another gully not long ago. New plastic pipe bits and rubber converter to join to the gully, few bags of MOT stone and then Screwfix do a tarmac repair kit which gets good reviews..

View attachment 10441

That's a great find!

 

[Cubist]

Well, today I got the disc cutter out and started slicing up the driveway!

Anyway, I was finding nothing - started next to the gully and gradually worked my way out, kept pouring water down the gully but although the soil was very moist there was no leak - until eventually I reached the Y junction with another pipe. Could it really be this far out? I'd been digging holes below each fitting and none were filling with water. So I worked back along where I'd been, this time with a hosepipe pouring water constantly down the gully. Hang on a moment, this bit feels damper than it did earlier - Eureka, cleaned away more muck and there was a drip - not quite sure how I missed it, I guess it's hard when it's all muddy, but there is a crack in the clay pipe right next to the gully.

View attachment 10440 View attachment 10442 View attachment 10443

Hard job - well compacted MOT stone, digging out about 2' below the driveway in a very confined space, I'm too old for this! The muscles are feeling it tonight.

Pleased though that I found it, took out a bit more tarmac than I needed to but not much - I'll take all that old clay pipe out back to the newer plastic pipe and do a proper job. I don't think lining would have worked there, and I doubt that crack would have been visible on a camera survey, so I feel less guilty at hacking the tarmac up! This bit is at least tucked out of the way behind our porch, so the patch shouldn't stand out too badly once it's faded in.

Now I need to do the actual fix, and hope that I can very carefully cut out the clay pipe and not break the gully, otherwise the job gets a lot more awkward. A diamond disc on a grinder and very carefully cut through the collar, just like I successfully did on another gully not long ago. New plastic pipe bits and rubber converter to join to the gully, few bags of MOT stone and then Screwfix do a tarmac repair kit which gets good reviews..

View attachment 10441

Glad to hear you cracked it. Well...you know what I mean.

 

[Feltwell]

So......

After very delicate surgery with a 9" grinder and a diamond blade, lots and lots of little cuts and very careful work with a cold chisel, the old pipe collar and it's rock hard cement successfully parted company with the (still intact) gully.

I suspect this got broken when the tarmac driveway was laid - the pipe was only just below the surface, a big vibrating roller above would be easily enough to crack it. But, it's now replaced with a flexible rubber coupling, so no more problems there:-



Tested with a hosepipe for a couple of hours, all was good.

Time to backfill - hmm, MOT stone at nearly £6 for a 25kg bag at Wickes, or half a ton in my trailer for £10 cash at the local quarry - bit of a no brainer! Compacted carefully in thin layers with lots and lots of work with a lump hammer and bit of wood......

And onto today's job - Tarmac yer drive Guv?



Sticks out like a sore thumb right now, give it a couple of years to fade and it will stand out a lot less. Quite pleased with the finish, considering my professional tarmacing tools consisted of a bit of 2" iron pipe and a lump hammer! Think industrial rolling pin, beaten down with a large hammer. I didn't even have any diesel to coat the tools with (it stops tarmac from sticking).

So, that's that one done, just in time for bank holiday rain tomorrow.