Grey render on 17th century listed house

[Philip_I]

I am thinking of buyer this house which has a lot of fantastic period features crying out for some TLC but I am slightly put off by the rather stark grey render. I wonder if anybody has any experience of changing the colour of something similar? Perhaps originally it was a more attractive but over the years turned grey or had a grey render applied? If not I wonder what the attitude of conversation officers would be to painting sympathetically in a more attractive colour. Any thoughts appreciated.



Brochure here for anyone that is interested:

http://www.dezrez.com/DRApp/Search.ASP?WCI=Particular&WCE=001138165

 

[Jon Maine]

I suspect they grey could be caused by the use of cement in the render, if this is the case it should be a relatively simple task to get consent to change for a lime render.

Try and establish what material it is rendered with.

Cement render is not good for period buildings as it does not allow them to breathe.

If it is lime render you could talk to the local conservation office about limewashing or mineral painting it. No sandtex or plastic paints would be acceptable as again they do not breathe.

 

[Philip_I]

Jon - thanks for the reply. I am not sure what the render but does seem like might be concrete in there. I am going to have another look next week so will try to find our more.

 

[Nemesis]

IoE Number: 114975
Location: THE RECTORY, WITHAM ROAD
BLACK NOTLEY, BRAINTREE, ESSEX
Photographer: Mr Frank Swift

Date Photographed: 22 January 2002
Date listed: 02 January 1985
Date of last amendment: 02 January 1985
Grade II


TL 72 SEBLACK NOTLEYWITHAM ROAD5/80The Rectory-II

TL 72 SE BLACK NOTLEY WITHAM ROAD 5/80 The Rectory - II House. Probably C17 origin, altered C18 to rectangular plan with later additions and alterations. Timber framed and rough rendered. Half hipped red plain tiled roof. Left, right and external right red brick chimney stacks. 2 storeys. Single storey lean-to to right. Parapet with modillion cornice. 3 small paned vertically sliding sash windows with moulded surrounds to first floor. Right and left small paned French doors with internal and external shutters to ground floor. Central 6 panel 2 light door, plain pilasters, rusticated frieze, moulded pediment. All doors approached by steps. RCHM 7.

The listing description isn't much help re the render; however, timber framing and cement render are not great combinations (we have a recent thread with further information) and I would certainly investigate this thoroughly before committing to buy.

 

[Moo]

Those descriptions can't be relied on, I'm afraid. Our house-before-last is described as "...Large stuccoed house " which it isn't. It's lovely old red brick that was painted in the 1920s and re-coated ever since. I know, because we got Strippers of Sudbury to do a trial patch which revealed the underlying brick but unfortunately we didn't have the necessary thousands of pounds to have it all done.
I contacted IoE about the error a couple of years ago and got a very friendly message of thanks and a promise that they'd correct the mistake. Checked today and nothing has changed.

 

[Nemesis]

Well we all know they at times get it wrong, but if it is timber frame and if it is cement - then be wary.

The frame may be hidden behind a later brick and then rendered facade, to give the classical frontage.

 

[Carol]

Moo-We had similar problems with our house, listing descrip. was for 17thC. stone house and house was actually 14thC T/F. We wrote to DCMS as it was then, I think it has probably changed name again, and were visited by a lovely man from London. He re-wrote listing correctly and added a few internal features that had been revealed over the years. I find it very worrying that some listings are so vague, especially as they are now so public.

Philip-If it is concrete render, proceed with caution as it may be an very expensive job to make house breathable. But it does look lovely and if i had the odd spare million, I would be tempted!

 

[Nemesis]

Listing descriptions are not intended (although this is changing) as a comprehensive and totally accurate description - they were/are intended basically as a guide to the building and there to help identification/address.

Many listing descriptions are very short and very basic, and have not been updated for years.

Q. What is a List Description?
A. Details of listed buildings are published by the Department for Culture, Media and Sport (DCMS). These lists are public documents and copies are held by local authorities, many local libraries as well as the National Monuments Record (NMR).

The lists contain the address of the historic building in question. This is the legal part of the document. The description is mainly there to help identify the building (very important in the early days of listing when postal addresses could be quite vague) but increasingly over recent years, they have become fuller to give a clearer idea about the building's history appearance and significance. The newest listings usually contain a brief statement that summarises in architectural shorthand what it is about the building that gives it its special historic interest. Without this, list descriptions can sometimes be quite difficult to use since they are written in technical shorthand for the use of local authority conservation specialists.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

I wonder what the attitude of conversation officers would be

I'm sure he'd be happy to have a chat....

Sorry, in a bit of a playful mood today

 

[DaveBrigg]

For what it's worth, our house has a grey cement render which the Conservation Officer suggested may be Victorian - the several layers of paint on top suggest that he could be right. The most recent coat was Sandtex though . We have been given approval to remove the cement and replace it with lime. I took a couple of square metres off the outside of one wall for a trial, and a corresponding dry patch appeared on the inside. Some of the render came off easily (a little too easily) while other patches have to be chiselled. The underlying brickwork also varies in quality, depending on how damp it got.

If the building looks dry and cosy inside, and has no signs of damp, then a few coats of limewash would change the colour. Speak to your Conservation Officer then get a long ladder, a few large buckets and a soft broom. If there are signs of damp inside, you have more of a problem. The Conservation Officer will use his or her best judgement, taking into account a range of factors that we cannot be aware of, so asking their advice is the best place to start.

 

[Philip_I]

Thanks for the reply Dave. Nice to know conservation officer was amenable to changing the colour even if the grey render was put on before listing. Going to have another look at the property tomorrow and will then probably speak to the local conservation/conversation officer if still interested in the place.

 

[Philip_I]

Well in case anyone is interested just been back to the house and confirmed that the render is indeed tyrolean type concrete. Nobody seems to know when it was applied other than "a long time ago" although my understanding is that this is a modern invention (at least 20th century?) Colour aside seems to be in good condition and no obvious problems on the internal walls from damp. However, wonder if this kind of render is storing up future problems for timber frame or internal walls. Seems other threads on this topic so I will go off to investigate.....

 

[Nemesis]

Did you see the Grand Design awards last night?

 

[Philip_I]

No but just looking at the renovation properties on the web page seems like an interesting case study.

 

[Nemesis]

One of the houses had the render removed from the timber frame. It was soft and crumbly, but exposure to air allowed it to re-consolidate.

This one in fact:

http://www.propertyfinder.com/cgi-bin/rsearch?a=o&id=501398442

http://www.channel4.com/4homes/ontv/grand-designs/Grand-Designs-Live-2008/best-restoration.html

I would urge caution though - have a survey done by someone who knows what they are about.

 

[Philip_I]

Tempted to move "up North" and buy that one instead and save myself some headaches! Amazing the difference in prices from around here. Still pondering whether to push ahead with this house as so much needs to be done but if so yes need some professional help to evaluate things before committing.

The house is still owned by the Church and was used by local vicar until two years ago since when left empty. It was definitely very ropey two years ago but now rapidly deteriorating. Amazing they didn't do something earlier. Also just this weekend they have put big metal shutters over all the windows and doors and concrete bollards on the three vehicle entrances (don't think they are expecting a quick sale!) They leave it empty to run down for two years then one month after putting on the market decided to turn it into Fort Knox just for added appeal to buyers.

 

[Nemesis]

It sounds a bit grim!

However - Essex - Stephen Boniface. Surveyor.

And PPUK Agony Uncle.

 

[Jon Maine]

How is it progressing Phillip?

 

[Philip_I]

Jon - think I am going to chicken out of trying to buy it. Been back a couple of times and everytime see something else that needs doing! That in itself doesn't put me off if price is right but noticed a feint constant hum of background traffic noise which rather dents my enthusiam for putting in the effort to renovate the place. Checked the outside a bit more carefully and a real hotch potch of different cement renders in slightly different colours. Eventually probably best to pull the whole lot off and start again. Anyway I hope somebody else buys it as I will continue to be tempted and probably end up doing something silly!