Grand Designs tonight

[Feltwell]

There was a horrible preview clip I saw last week of someone smashing out what looked like original wattle & daub from an old barn - tonight's Grand Designs could make for uncomfortable viewing. Channel 4's website says:-


Three years ago Simon Bennett and his wife Jill gave up a life abroad to return to Simon's home county of Suffolk. They bought two timber framed barns ripe for conversion. But they soon discovered that one wasn't quite what it seemed.

The smaller 'barn' they'd taken to be a dilapidated cowshed turned out to be one of the smallest surviving medieval guildhalls in the country, and of national importance. Now Simon and Jill face two very different challenges: how to convert a single storey sixteenth century barn into a two-storey modern home, and what to do with its neighbour, a unique architectural gem.

Kevin McCloud is anxious for Simon to conserve as much of the guildhall's history as possible, including the agricultural additions. Simon is set on a more radical path, to restore it to its medieval splendour.

 

[robgil]

i seen this being advertised last week , i cringed. it starts in 20 mins.

 

[Nigel Watts]

I dont quite know why but barn conversions make me cringe. I have never seen one that doesn't have this effect on me.

 

[robgil]

mr mccloud isnt impressed i dont think, especially when they kicked the wattle and daub panels through.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

An eloquent illustration of the phrase "damning with faint praise".

 

[robgil]

not too keen on the suffolk ''salmon'' paint job either.
interesting about the black weather boarding. i always thought it was to hide buildings from bombers during the war.
were those buildings listed?

 

[biffvernon]

An eloquent illustration of the phrase "damning with faint praise".

+1

 

[Gareth Hughes]

not too keen on the suffolk ''salmon'' paint job either.
interesting about the black weather boarding. i always thought it was to hide buildings from bombers during the war.
were those buildings listed?

I wouldn't mind red barns, and blue barns, and white barns, but everyone who won't go along with black seems to want hideous chavvy treacle-brown stained barns.
Yes, they were listed. They still are. In 20 years time, when you ask a child what a barn is, they'll say, "it's one of those funny black houses with two big windows and a metal chimney".
I'm with Nigel on barn conversions. Their promoters often claim that the barn will be "lost" unless it's immediately turned into a house. This is not true (not for years, anyway). But it'll usually be lost in the process of conversion anyway.
Sometimes it's better to let an old building die with dignity (I don't mean demolishing it, I mean letting it fall to bits). Granny wouldn't look better with botox and breast implants.

Gosh, Grand Designs seems to have annoyed me even more than usual.

 

[robgil]

so what are peoples thoughts on restoring the guild hall property to its original state (except the floor???) or retaining its historical changes?
i know what you mean about barn conversions , cant english heritage buy them and restore them properly?

 

[Gareth Hughes]

so what are peoples thoughts on restoring the guild hall property to its original state (except the floor???) or retaining its historical changes?
i know what you mean about barn conversions , cant english heritage buy them and restore them properly?

Restoring it to its "original" state might have been justified, if it was important enough, and, to be honest, it had been altered so much in its later life that that would have involved removing the token few bits of wattle and daub they did preserve. But in its original state, it didn't have an imported limestone floor, for example. So what you got was a modern interpretation, based not on the latest scholarly thinking about late mediaeval interiors, but on a rather 19th century vision of the grandest mediaeval buildings. Neither nowt nor summat.

 

[robgil]

i have to agree there Gareth , another thing that struck me was the roof , surely it would have been thatched? the floor did make me laugh out loud though , and then cringe.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

His idea that mediaeval buildings all had reclaimed tile roofs was a bit of an eye-opener (jaw-dropper) too.
I've gone on about this before, but:
1. Every reclaimed tile roof represents a demolished historic building (whether legally or not - and "it will be salvaged for reuse elsewhere" has been known to swing a decision in favour of swinging the ball and chain), or a wrecked historic building with a new roof, or a couple of blokes turning up with a van in the middle of the night and pinching someone else's roof.
2. Craft skills should be kept alive - they are part of the "biodiversity" (wrong word, but it's close enough) of the building industry. Craftsmen today need employment. Some of them make clay roof tiles by hand, which they then try to sell, against a market glutted by people trying to by reclaims because they provide more instant gratification. In time, these new tiles weather just like old ones.

 

[robgil]

they do , and to be fair a repair is a repair so to repair something with old reclaimed timber instead of new is a bit silly if not confusing for later historians.
even if a large percentage of the timber is or has to be replaced with new at least its not hiding the buildings history. Saying that i see very fer repairs being dated with dates carved into the wood , surely this would put an end to any later confusion.
I at least try to date things , even by hiding modern coins within the repair.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Good for you.
And here, in something I'm just catching up with from TV earlier tonight (about ten minutes into the programme), is one of the best short explanations of why William Morris founded the SPAB in 1877 and railed against fakery at the expense of what was humble, but real:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00tx3fg/Churches_How_to_Read_Them_The_Victorians_and_After/

 

[Flyfisher]

I dont quite know why but barn conversions make me cringe. I have never seen one that doesn't have this effect on me.

Ditto.

Granny wouldn't look better with botox and breast implants.

Really?

. . . fair enough.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

I'm thinking about the "typical" granny. But I imagine she started having the scaffolding put up before she became a granny, anyway.

 

[robgil]

interesting how restoration can be seen as vandalism. sometimes renovation and restoration can be confused. i think in the case of a dwelling a restoration could sometimes deem it unfit for a modern lifestyle, its the balance between restoration and renovation thing again eh?
or it could just be the bottle of my neighbours scrumpy that i have just consumed. He is showing me how to make it tomorrow , apparently he is making 25 gallons tomorrow and the bottle i am drinking is of a 19 90 something vintage. its very nice , it tastes like sherry.

those arnt real are they? dolly? what are you doing? perhaps shes just got a very thin waist.

 

[Nigel Watts]

I am not at all sure than fine, redundant farm buildings couldn't find alternative uses other than being converted into modern luxury homes. I would have thought that there are people who would, for a modest rent, might be prepared to use them for storage or workshops but planning permission to convert to a dwelling adds so much to the value that this is always likely to be the option owners will pursue.

 

[JoceAndChris]

I haven't seen it yet but I completely agree than barn conversions are a dreadful shame.

Why - instead of converting something that's picturesque and historic and deserves the dignity of being a gently crumbling ruin - can't they convert something that's really horrid, and cheap - into something nice, and expensive?

I'm thinking of something like the house where I grew up - very ordinary 70s construction, but detached with nice-ish views. Knock that down and turn it into a lovely copy of one of John Buonarotti Papworth's designs from the early 19th C. Now that would be worth watching.

 

[biffvernon]

His idea that mediaeval buildings all had reclaimed tile roofs was a bit of an eye-opener (jaw-dropper) too.
I've gone on about this before, but:
1. Every reclaimed tile roof represents a demolished historic building (whether legally or not - and "it will be salvaged for reuse elsewhere" has been known to swing a decision in favour of swinging the ball and chain), or a wrecked historic building with a new roof, or a couple of blokes turning up with a van in the middle of the night and pinching someone else's roof.
2. Craft skills should be kept alive - they are part of the "biodiversity" (wrong word, but it's close enough) of the building industry. Craftsmen today need employment. Some of them make clay roof tiles by hand, which they then try to sell, against a market glutted by people trying to by reclaims because they provide more instant gratification. In time, these new tiles weather just like old ones.

Sound arguments of course. But. What should we do with old tiles? Smash them up? There is also a sound argument in favour of reuse.

Good to see the craft skills of oak framing being kept alive by someone wanting to repair and old barn rather than let it fall down gracefully.