Grade II listing

[mollynoodles]

Hi everybody!

I currently own a property built in 1825 but am thinking of purchasing a Grade II listed property that originated about 200 years before my cottage.

I have a few questions and you seemed likely to have some answers here!

1. Am I nuts for even considering a listed building?

2. If, say I wanted to install an additional bathroom, would I need to employ an architect? In other words for any change or alteration do EH insist on architects being on board?

3. This one may seem obvious but worth asking - Would you definitely recommend a full structural survey at least or do some of you take the view that as it's stood there that long .......

4. As you can see I don't know much about listings. Are there any obvious questions I need to ask that I might not have thought about?

Thanks for any replies !!

 

[jocelyn plummer]

Deep pockets, patience with obtaining listed buildings consent , the ability to charm your Conservation Officer and it will be a doodle.

 

[plasticpigeon]

I have no idea, although I often wish I lived in a listed building as then I would have to do things in a traditional way and my girlfriend couldn't argue with me!!!! About structural surveys, I had one done and I would consider it money down the drain. Unless they are a specialist in historic buildings I imagine that you may know more about possible problems than the surveyor/structural engineer. I suppose a realistic approach with lots of contingency money for things being worse than they look might be the best approach. Finding good builders may also be a problem!!!!!!

 

[Flyfisher]

Welcome aboard Molly.

A lot will depend on the condition of the property you're thinking of buying. My answers below are based on my experience of taking on a a G2* property that was essentially sound but had suffered a couple of decades of neglect, leading to many localised problems.

So, to answer your questions:

1. No. Well, not for considering one. :wink:

2. I've successfully gone through two LBC applications without using an architect. The alterations granted were fairly minor (opening up fireplaces and moving a number of internal stud walls) and the remainder of the works were mostly repairs and improvements to the roof. I prepared all the paperwork myself and it was perfectly acceptable, albeit quite a bit of work! I'm currently awaiting approval of my 3rd LBC application that involved an external addition and I used an architect to prepare the formal drawings, though the basic design concept was developed by our CO. I then prepared all the supporting documentation and handled the formal LBC application.

3. Having learned so much over the past six years, I'd be tempted not to have a full structural survey on the basis that - as it turned out - it didn't tell me anything I hadn't already discovered - but it's a bit like insurance really. However, it's important to find someone who understands old buildings. It's also important to understand that the final report may well be more critical than the reality because the surveyor has to cover themselves against all possibilities. Being present on the day of the survey, talking with the surveyor and asking lots of questions will likely be more informative than the final report.

4. As far as listing is concerned, I doubt you'll have any problems unless you want to do something inappropriate, but it does mean that alterations require LBC, which is essentially a planning application with all that entails. You've mentioned EH but they are not normally involved with G2 LBC applications. They are, however, formally involved with LBC applications for G2* and G1 properties. For a G2 property, the most important person will be your Conservation Officer (CO) or Historic Buildings Officer or whatever your council call the person concerned. I would recommend contacting the relevant person before your purchase and discuss your plans for the property with them to gauge their reaction - though they are not obliged to provide pre-purchase advice and may be too busy. But you should still try.

We've been fortunate to have a very supportive CO. That's not the same thing as an 'easy' CO who will agree to anything - far from it. But, in our case, it has meant someone committed enough to work with us to find the most appropriate solutions to a number of issues. In this respect it has been like having free access to an expert consultant, but a lot will depend on your particular council, hence my recommendation to try to make contact before committing. But always remember that the prime duty of the CO is to the listed property.

The only other thing I'd add is that you've already started doing the right thing by asking these sort of questions. There is a lot to learn but PPUK is an amazing resource. It's no exaggeration to say that I couldnt have taken on our project without the help and advice of the people here.

Good luck!

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Welcome Molly.

You won't get better advice than FF's comprehensive reply there!

Good luck.

 

[LadyArowana]

Hi Molly, welcome from me too. In answer to your questions,

1. No not at all, listed buildings can be wonderful.

2. An architect may not be needed, but you would have to put in some effort ( as FF has explained ) to prepare the required paperwork etc.

3. I completely agree with FF that a full structural survey is a good "insurance", at worst it will cost you the price of the survey and tell you nothing you couldn't "see", at best it could save you a very costly mistake if it points up an issue you have not identified.

4. Ask yourself if there are changes to the building which would require LBC that are fundamental to your wish to buy it, you do not want to be left with the situation of thinking "if I had known I couldn't put in that bathroom/ move the kitchen/ knock through that wall/ build on the conservatory etc etc" I wouldn't have bought it. If changes are merely things you would "like" to do, but not absolute deal breakers then it isn't so much of an issue.

 

[AMc]

3. This one may seem obvious but worth asking - Would you definitely recommend a full structural survey at least or do some of you take the view that as it's stood there that long .......

If you need to borrow then you need to get a valuation at least. To get a sensible valuation without retentions for unnecessary injected damp proofing etc. then you need to employ a surveyor has experience with period properties and traditional construction methods and who the lender recognises.

I was lucky that I was able to find one through my building society who worked for Countrywide. He did the valuation at the same time as the full report for me so I wasn't obliged to pay twice for the same thing. His report was overly critical of a number of things that needed "urgent repair" (they didn't) but was in general supportive of the purchase and understood the construction. He was much more forthcoming on the phone about the state of the house than he was in writing so I'd recommend you take detailed notes on any report then call the surveyor and talk through your questions.

I wouldn't try and save around £1500 or so on £100K+ house purchase. The chances are that you'll find enough faults in the report to negotiate at least the cost of it out of the purchase price but you will know that there are no serious defects or major concerns. YMMV

 

[88v8]

I had a pre-purchase structural by Chris Green
http://www.thatsurveyor.co.uk/index.htm
It was useful in negotiating a price reduction, and gave me confidence to proceed. Although I am very practical and had lived 30+ years in an old house, a G2 house 400 years old was another matter. He identified various damp n rot issues - almost inevitable - which have not in fact proven hard to deal with, and missed others, but wth, I would use him again.
As has been said, your main problem will be finding a good builder. There are many bodgers around, many ignorant building society surveyors, and many period houses which have already been damaged by the combination of bad builder, bad surveyor and bad owner who should have stuck to a modern house.
You will need to learn for yourself how things should be done and not rely on a builder's advice.

The main determinant is you. If you are practical and willing to learn, willing to live with draughts and damp and wearing woolies in the winter, go ahead. Oherwise don't. Moneypit....

removing cement pointing in the dining room what fun

Ivor

 

[mollynoodles]

Thanks very much everyone for your replies! Lots of good advice there. Thank you.