Grade II listed - modifications?

[Hopeful]

Hey, you all seem a decent bunch of folk maybe you can help me.

We are thinking of buying a GII listed farmhouse - early Georgian I think - strong symmetry and sash windows, but needs quite a lot of work (kitchen bathrooms wiring etc?). Someone has pointed it with OPC mortar and the whole thing needs raking out and re-pointing. Does this need a specialist contractor? Can anyone give a ball-park idea of cost?

Also, we would like to modify it a bit - maybe roof windows at the back? Any tips on dealing with the Conservation Officer?

Thanks

 

[DaveBrigg]

Your project sounds similar to ours. The kitchen and bathroom needed taking back to bare walls, then plastering, wiring etc before we could even start on the fittings. The whole house needed to be rewired from scratch (it was a miracle it hadn't caught fire) which cost £10 000, including TV and phone points and burglar alarm and electric points in outbuildings. You may be able to get it cheaper, and of course it depends on size.

We didn't have much cement pointing, so were able to remove it ourselves. It's a delicate job since the brickwork is fairly fragile, and the cement has a tendency to stick to the surface. Getting carried away with a hammer can cause more harm than good. From other comments I've read, if you don't want to do this yourself a specialist is a good idea. I've seen pictures of walls where the mortar was removed with an angle grinder :evil: Our chimneys will need repointing soon, and we've been quoted £4000, which sounds a lot to me, even taking into account the cost of the scaffolding. Time to invest in a roof ladder I think.

Our conservation officer has been brilliant. He was pleased that someone was taking on an 'at risk' building, and was happy to give what advice he was allowed to. The best tip was to add a second loft hatch at the opposite end of the building; invaluable when trying to insulate the loft a couple of months later. Once he knew that we were willing to listen and do what was (hopefully) best for the building there were no problems, although we haven't made any structural changes. If you start by explaining about the repointing and care you will be taking, and then mention that you were thinking about adding a window, and asking his or her advice, you may be in luck. There may be grants available for the repointing too.
Good luck.

 

[Hopeful]

Thanks, does sound similar. I had 5k in mind for the wiring, but haven't had a close look yet. Did you put in conduits?

I think we may be able to get away with a bit less hacking about in the bathrooms, though it has lime plaster floors!

I think I want to convince myself that it will be less dosh, because I love the house so much. Common problem?

I love pointing, though I have never used lime, I think the scaffolding would be quite expensive though - it's a big house. I have thought of buying the scaffolding, taking my time and then selling it later. Cheaper than hiring - annoying for the neighbours!

 

[Roger H]

For scaffolding, I recently bought a tower that pieces togther to get up to a working height platform of 4m+ and is 6'x4' square. Very light alluminium sections and slots together with none of the awkward clips and ultra heavy poles of the traditional variety. Cost about £200.

 

[CHRIS]

DO NOT BUY SCAFFOLD!!!!

You will not have all the correct insurance etc and if it falls down (it does happen) you will be up s^&* creek. Unless you have a scaffold inspection ticket you cant sign the register and the HSE will pull you pants down if it is not.

You will be better off renting it as you pay for the putting up and down and very little for rent. Also some companies like the stuff being out of the yard taking up space.

PS I hear on the grapevine a scaffolder was killed in London yesterday as he fell 6m onto concrete.

 

[Penners]

Any tips on dealing with the Conservation Officer?

It's important to get the CO on your side, and to reassure him/her that you are sensitive to the historic nature of your building. Once you manage that, if your experience is anything like mine your CO will be really helpful.

The worst thing to do is to be confrontational. Don't tell the CO what you want to do. Explain your needs from the building and your thoughts about it, and ask for advice in achieving these. For example, it's much better to say "I thought the building really needed more light in this area - any thoughts on how we could achieve this?" rather than "I want to put in a roof light".

Once the CO sees your plan to rake out the OPC and point with lime, you should be off to a flying start!

 

[Hopeful]

:shock: Ok put off buying scaffold!

 

[Hopeful]

Good tip Penners, thanks.

 

[Hopeful]

Sorry Penners...

 

[Penners]

If you make an error in a post, Hopeful, you can always edit it. Click the "edit" button on the top right-hand corner. Never mind about my nom de plume, but it comes in handy if you shoot your mouth off, then think better of it! :wink:

 

[Hopeful]

More good tips - sorted. 8)

 

[Flyfisher]

PS I hear on the grapevine a scaffolder was killed in London yesterday as he fell 6m onto concrete.

I had a visit from EDF yesterday to discuss removing a couple of power poles near our house. He saw our scaffolding and casually remarked that they had just had a notice sent around forbidding all EDF employees from climbing any scaffolding because of a recent fatality. Same one perhaps?

 

[Penners]

There was a chap killed in a car accident once. Have EDF banned vehicular transport?

 

[Flyfisher]

Well, he turned up in a van so presumably their health & safety people haven't got around to banning that particular risk . . . yet.

 

[CHRIS]

I bet he had done a risk assessment and done a method statement!!!!!

It was a young lad who fell from 6m and die on way to hospital near the City of London, will find out details in London tommorrow. Very sad!

 

[Nemesis]

Back to the modifications - if you feel you can't live without rooflights, I'd contact the CO before buying.

They may not be considered suitable.

 

[DaveBrigg]

Did you put in conduits?

No, the wiring was just clipped to the wall and plastered over. We did take pictures first, to help when hanging pictures

I think we may be able to get away with a bit less hacking about in the bathrooms, though it has lime plaster floors!

We also have a limecrete floor in the bathroom, though in a poor state of repair. The solution was to fit new joists above, which left enough of a gap beneath to run all the pipes without needing to knock any more holes in the lime. The only disadvatage is the raised height, making it easier to bang your head on the doorframe. If you want to keep to the original level someone here should be able to suggest a suitable covering.

I think I want to convince myself that it will be less dosh, because I love the house so much. Common problem?

Unfortunately, yes. I was shocked at how much the bills came to, but then I stopped adding them up, and it's much better now. To be fair, the only unexpected increase was from the builders, who ended up using over 12 tonnes of mortar and plaster - a lot more than they expected.

It would be nice to see a picture of the house in question, although I can understand if you are reluctant before any deal goes through. Have you looked at the images of England website http://www.imagesofengland.org.uk/default.aspx which has pictures and details of most listed properties?