Grade 2 listing query

[Anonymous]

Hi

We're in the process of buying a house that's a bit odd. The front part is a 1930's semi, but there are 2 x grade 2 listed cottages in the garden, attached to the front house by a newly constucted (1994) passageway. When the passage was built in 1994, the owners also built a kitchen extension on the back of the semi, but this doesn't touch the cottages; the passageway connects the new kitchen extension to the cottages.

We don't want to do any work to the cottages, but the vendor seems to think that, because the listed cottages are physically linked to the main house, the front house is automatically grade 2 listed.

Does anyone know if this is true? We're wanting to put french doors in the kitchen extension, but I don't want to go ahead with this if we need LBC.

Thanks in advance.

Nim

PS - I know I should just ring the Conservation Officer but I'm having difficulty catching him in the office!

 

[Anonymous]

Everything within the curtilage of the listed building is included in the listing, even modern stuff, so you do, at least in theory, need listed building consent to change anything even in the modern house. But if the change doesn't affect the historic character then it won't be refused. Talk to the Conservation Officer or join the Outlaws.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for that. I think I'll speak to the Conservation Officer - I'm not sure I'm brave enough to be an outlaw <IMG SRC="http://www.periodproperty.co.uk/discussing/smileys/smile.gif" BORDER=0 ALT="">

 

[Anonymous]

I'd write also - get the response in writing!

I'm sure that there will be no difficulty, but best to check!

 

[Anonymous]

I would say that if it is linked to an already listed building the chances are it has listed building status too. Ofcourse being an outlaw isn't as bad as it seems, so long as you make freinds with other outlaws.

 

[Anonymous]

Well - not neccessarily! I can cite examples where it would take a court case to decide ... however, curtilage is an iffy one, and not worth risking. As there would be no loss of 'historic fabric' of note I can't see consent would be refused - and the CO may deem it not required.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Evelyn , Im all for the outlaw idea , it seems more fun.

 

[Anonymous]

Not if you have enforcement action taken it wouldn't be.

 

[Anonymous]

The building I live in was renovated in 1989 - The builder was allowed to run riot over this place. It took 4 sets of owners before the bureaucratic machine caught up. It seems to me the penalties are not harsh enough or rarely carried out. I can see why people become outlaws. The system is too complex and slow, whereas not bothering dosen't have enough recourse to dissuade.

 

[Anonymous]

This issue has been raised at the Commons Select Committee on heritage currently taking place.

However, I note that my own local authority seems to have taken action against some particularly nasty uPVC windows in a Conservation Area... the situation is complex, but at least some rather more sympathetic sliding sash ones have now been put in place... sad that the originals were junked though.

 

[Anonymous]

Im all for sliding sash in period properties , especially Windmills.

 

[Anonymous]

Not sure if the windmill reference was intended to draw me into this, but you'll find a lot of them have (or had) centre-pivoted tilting windows which can be more effectively proofed against rainwater running down the tower and trickling into the window reveals

 

[Anonymous]

only parts which predate 1st july 1948 are included.

 

[Anonymous]

It was said that
"When the passage was built in 1994, the owners also built a kitchen extension on the back of the semi, but this doesn't touch the cottages; the passageway connects the new kitchen extension to the cottages. "

Did they get permission for that work?

 

[Anonymous]

Hi
Thanks for all your replies. The work that was carried out in 1994 involved renovating the Grade 2 listed cottages, building the kitchen extension, then building a passageway to join the two properties. This was all done with the necessary planning permissions.

The good news is, I spoke to the Conservation Officer yesterday. He suggested we get moved in, then he'll come out and go through what we want to do, and we'll either apply for LBC or he'll write us a letter saying he's happy with what we are doing, depending on the works involved.

As we're planning on doing the main work to the 1994 extension, minimal work to the front (new) house, and restoration work to the cottages (eg putting in fireplaces in keeping with the age of them, rather than the Victorian style repros currently in place), I don't think we'll have any problems. Fingers crossed anyway!

Thanks again everyone.

 

[Anonymous]

This all sounds brilliant - it is useful to get everything in writing, even if the CO decides LBC isn't required for certain things.

It all helps when and if you want to sell.

 

[Anonymous]

The primary issue you need to establish is whether the proposed work affects the character of the listed building. If not, you don't need consent. Neither the local authority or English Heritage are the arbiters of this question, but are normally relied upon for an "expert" opinion. Therefore, the "safe" option is to get the conservation officer's (assuming there is one) opinion in writing. The law is that ANY unauthorised work that affects the character is an offence, laying anyone who ordered or carried out the work liable to prosecution.


Conservation Architecture & Planning