Grade 2* Listed Building

[Jaimito]

Hello

We have a grade 2* listed gatehouse which was partially demolished by accident; A lorry swung off the narrow entrance lane and failed to make the entrnace to the back of the site. The lorry demolished one of the stone gateposts, crossed the narrow lawn in front of the gatehouse and finally toppled sideways into the gatehouse itself demolishing the rose creepered porch and front dining room completely, into which one of the first floor bedrooms had partially collapse.

We have applied for a new listed building consent and building control approval.

Unfortunately the Building Control Department had rejected our plans on the basis that there are several features in the part of the building that was not destroyed in the accident that are not compliant.

Firstly, the window areas in the bedrooms are insufficient for a habitable room, secondly that the ceiling heights on the ground floor are insufficient, thirdly that the insulation standards of the whole building are below the current requirements, fourthly that the floor structure between ground and first floor is inadequate and does not meet current loading parameters, and finally that the replacement staircase to the first floor, which was one of the features (of the listing) that was demolished, is too narrow, even though it is an exact replica of the one we are replacing.

Is the Building Control Department correct in each of these situations to demand? What are our options?

Thank you

 

[Nemesis]

Have you discussed this with the Conservation Officer, and not simply Building Control?

Also - what period is the building?

Have you contacted English Heritage, (Regional Office) which will have a say over what you do with a II* listed building?

Expecting you to bring the rest of the building (which is still listed!) up to modern building regs is barmy, and listed buildings do not have to comply. The entire building is listed, in and out, not simply the structures mentioned in the listing.

It all sounds dreadful - very distressing - how are your insurers dealing with it all?

( Keep a careful log of all dealings with Building Control too - sounds like jobsworths who haven't any idea!)

 

[Flyfisher]

I also think you should be mainly dealing with your Conservation Officer because the listing should take precedence over the building control. BC may or may not need to be involved at some stage but whatever their involvement they should themselves be controlled by the CO. The CO should be the responsible authority in all this. Commiserations though; not a happy situation.

 

[Penners]

As mentioned above, have you simply applied for Listed Building Consent via paperwork, or have you actually had a face-to-face chat with your Conservation Officer about this?

I'm quite confident that, if you enlist your CO's personal help, he/she will be able to ensure that building regulations are waived in the case of a Grade II*.

 

[middi]

The conservation officer will, more than likely, expect the part rebuild and repairs to be like for like in materials or aspect in order to protect and preserve it's charm

A bit of concern though that these lovely gatehouses generally have become precariously situated over the decades and have become exposed to the hazard of modern traffic. It would be nice to se them covered in wisteria or clematis nestled on the corner of an usurfaced crossroad.

 

[Jaimito]

Thanks so much for all your help.

The gatehouse is Georgian.

The officer from the English Heritage was very anxious as the traffic on the lane was due to some building works on a site in the back of the plot. Unfortunately there was not a risk assessment in place and no recommendation regarding the protection of the gatehouse.

I found the "Building Regulations and Historic Buildings" booklet very helpul, it is published by the English heritage.

 

[Nemesis]

Well, if there continues to be problems with Building Control, give the Georgian Group case officer for your area a ring, and enlist the help of SPAB too.

But first thing tomorrow, call EH and tell them about Building Control...

 

[Jaimito]

In any case. If part of a listed building is destroyed and then you rebuild it. Does it has to be done exactly as it previously was? Wouldn't you need to make some consessions in order to accomodate better some issues with building regulations?

 

[Nemesis]

It's a tricky one really, depends how much is gone I suspect, but in general building regs can be waived, and 'like for like' repairs should be aimed at where appropriate. If changes are made I suspect then building regs may come into play more. Clearly the place needs to be safe, but I really would have a long chat to your CO and EH as I think BC are being crazy.

 

[Penners]

I think BC are being crazy.

Seconded.

 

[Nemesis]

I'd also ignore much of the advice here:

http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1783

apart from Biff's!

English Heritage and the Conservation Officer should be the first people to talk to, then SPAB (free helpline) and the Georgian Group.

 

[Craig]

Ooh - what a load of old women they are on that Green Building Forum, not like us over here of course...

PS - I agree, your BC officer may well waive his requirements if he gets confirmation that your CO requires a certain thing but he may wish to see active confirmation and not take your word. This is what I found.

 

[Nemesis]

Dunno about the sexist comment! :shock: However, much of it well meaning but irrelevant I'm afraid! II* listed are quite rare really... best allow EH to have its say. Then enlist the support of the Geo Group and SPAB if there are problems.

Conservation is a small world really...

However - it will take time to sort out the details, even with a good conservation architect helping out.

 

[Craig]

Hmm - good point. Apologies. Still - old men, much worse...

 

[Nemesis]

You may say that - I couldn't possibly comment!


Being serious - I can't stress strongly enough that ploughing on alone isn't a good plan. Further discussions with the CO and EH are required urgently, and the Geo Group and SPAB have expert advice to offer on individual cases, not just in general.

As I said - conservation is a small world, and where destruction of an important listed building is concerned, alarm bells will ring.

http://www.spab.org.uk/html/advice/

http://www.georgiangroup.org.uk/docs/about/index.php

http://www.georgiangroup.org.uk/docs/about/index.php?id=2:5:70:0

 

[Penners]

Dunno about the sexist comment!

Sexism, love? Don't you worry your pretty little head about it.

 

[Nemesis]

I don't, as I usually find a well-aimed knee solves the problem.

 

[Flyfisher]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8injvP1lJ8I&feature=related

(crosses legs and ducks for cover :wink: )

 

[Nemesis]

I'm off for a shave then.