Grade 2 listed building

[domast]

Hi there,

I was wondering if i could have some pointers.

A few months ago my family and i moved into a grade 2 listed building which was renovated 6 years ago, only to find out now that there is evidence of damp in the lounge, and other areas of the house, (which i appreciate you are going to get in an old house), butwe seemed to be inundated with silverfish. I have had a damp proofer out and they have informed me that there doesnt seem to be a membrane installed on the floor and the walls where the damp is appearing. So my question is can you have a DPC laid on the floor and the walls without informing the conservation officer or do you have to inform him of everything you plan to do. First time i've owned a listed building.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks

 

[AMc]

Welcome to the forum!

Damp is not an inevitable problem with old houses and a Damp Proof Membrane (DPM) is unlikely to do you any favours and may well make the problem worse.
I can't guarantee that your conservation officer would need to be involved but you'd be foolhardy to do anything significant without consulting them as it can carry criminal charges. They may also be able to help you work out what the true cause of the damp is.

Have a look at the cunningly concealed Damp FAQ
http://www.periodproperty.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6777

Then do some searches on "damp" and "breathable" - don't panic and avoid doing anything in haste. You'll find a lot of people will help if you do a bit of reading and ask questions.

 

[LadyArowana]

Did the legal searches at the time you purchased give any clues about previous planning/ listed buildings applications?

 

[Flyfisher]

I'd echo AMc's initial advice, particularly the bit about not doing anything in haste and reading the Damp FAQ.

Regarding the listing, in general terms 'repairs' do not require permission but 'alterations' do. However, there can be overlaps so I would also agree that making contact with your CO would be a good thing, whatever you're thinking of doing. In my experience a good CO is like having an expert consultant on hand to provide advice and suggestions. Having said all that, I can't imagine that installing any form of DPC, where one did not previously exist, could be reasonably classed as a 'repair', so you'd need to talk to your CO anyway.

It might help if you could post a bit more information about your house; type of construction, type of soil, floor levels relative to the exterior ground level, any sloping ground that may accumulate water etc etc. It's also useful to add your approximate location to your profile. Photos can also be very helpful.

 

[MdB]

Before trying to fix the damp, it is very important to find out why you have damp. Answer this and then you can look for solutions.

Possible causes to consider: Outside ground level is higher than inside. Inside / outside of walls has been covered in cement and / or other non breathable material. You have a leaky pipe. You never open any of the windows / doors and hence no ventilation. Ground water table is very high. Rain water is getting in. Down pipes leak and / or don't get rain water away from the house. Something else...

If the damp is coming from the top of the house, fitting a DPC will just make the top of the DPC damp. If the damp is coming from the ground, then fitting the DPC in the floor only will give you a dry floor but may well make your walls very damp (it did in ours). Injected DPCs into walls may possibly work in some situations but most people here think that they are a con and don't work in many old houses.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Welcome to the forum!

Excellent advice from the others, and please please don't do anything expensive and drastic about your damp problem yet. Live in it a couple of years first. It's so often caused by old houses having been treated inappropriately, and then modern water production being too high ( drying laundry, showering), combined with a love of hot rooms and not opening windows.

Try easy things first - gentle constant heating, good ventilation, lots of doors and windows open when we get the warm Spring days.

To get rid of silverfish - vacuum and re vacuum! We were inundated with them too but a constant regime of vacuuming around the crevices of the breakfast room and especially the Rayburn has drastically reduced the population, I scarcely see any now. Having said that, I recall there is typically a large hatch in early Spring which takes a lot of vacuuming so perhaps you've had your hatch a little early.

 

[Moo]

I got a bit of a cold shiver when I read that your house was 'renovated' about six years ago.
With the best will in the world, but without some basic knowledge about old buildings, it is so easy to make mistakes (I know - we did!) and I'm wondering what the previous owners did.
Is there any way in which you could find out?



ps = my usual plea for some information on your profile about where you are; it might reveal that there are forum members in your area.

 

[domast]

Thanks very much for the information.

Funnily enough i have been digging a French Drain in front of the outside wall that is damp. i pulled part of the skirting board away to discover a rotting,wet and smelly skirting board as well as several holes in the wall that you can actually feel a draft coming through on the inside wall.

The reason i started the FD is i believe the front garden is higher than the floor of the house. The previous owners had a box hedge infront of the wall and the lawn in front of the outside wall has been particularly sodden recently however the other part of the lawn isn't so wet.

Also noticed that the people who lived there before had all the windows painted shut, so no air could pass through. Odd....

As for the searches nothing untoward was mentioned.

The house is built of Main walls 450 mm /225 mm Solid Stone wall / Brick
Floors - Solid/Suspended.

 

[domast]

Hi Moo,

As far as finding out what they did i will just have to call them and ask.

But from what i can see they have made some attempt at, what looks like polyfilla above the skirting board where the bubbling has appeared. Looks like the previous owner was a DIY enthusiast, but not a very good one!!

There are alot of silverfish in the kitchen where the Aga is, and they have placed floor tiles with underfloor heating on an original oak flooring....Criminal....

But without actually asking the previous owner what he did or didnt do then i'm stumbling on things as i go...

Any advice on what not too do, sounds as though you have some experience on this subject. I have someone coming in to investigate the floor in the lounge...

 

[MdB]

I have someone coming in to investigate the floor in the lounge...

If they come for free and sell damp solutions, ignore everything they have to say... Instead, pay for a damp expert that doesn't get a kick back from the damp proofing companies. You will potentially save yourself a fortune and do the right thing for your house as a bonus.

 

[Moo]

As far as finding out what they did i will just have to call them and ask.

But from what i can see they have made some attempt at, what looks like polyfilla above the skirting board where the bubbling has appeared. Looks like the previous owner was a DIY enthusiast, but not a very good one!!

they have placed floor tiles with underfloor heating on an original oak flooring....

But without actually asking the previous owner what he did or didnt do then i'm stumbling on things as i go...

Oh dear. That doesn't bode well !
It looks as though it's going to be a combination of asking the previous owner what he did, and quite a bit of "stumbling on things" on your part.
If and when you do speak to the culprit (aka previous owner), may I suggest that you do so in a very neutral tone - any hint that you disapprove of what he/she has done could cause the shutters to come down.

 

[domast]

I've just had a builder round who did a renovation on my parents property some years back and did a very good job.

He has just dug a core hole in the lounge floor and he said that it would appear that there is no DPM in the floor. Its also interesting as the internal walls are also showing evidence of damp too.

What would your advice be with this extra information now? Go back to the original builder even though it was 6 years ago?

 

[AMc]

In a period house there is very likely no DPM under the floor - this isn't necessarily a problem and in many cases adding one will cause your problem to get worse not better.

Is the floor concrete or something else?
How recently was it laid?
Has anything else changed that would affect the ability for the house to 'breathe' moisture?

 

[domast]

Ok, but if the renovation was only done 6 years ago, would they not of put one in.

As far as the floor goes it looks like its concrete.

Nothing has changed as far as we can see apart from some of the windows being painted shut...

 

[Penners]

In order to be as informed as possible on what your predecessors did when they "renovated" the house, it might be worthwhile going along to your local authority planning department and asking to see the details of any Listed Building Consent applications that were made.

Of course, this may not cover any works they did that fell under the heading of "repairs", but you might at least get some information. And it's my experience that, when it comes to period properties, the more you know about what's been done to them, the better you can plan what you should do.

 

[AMc]

Ok, but if the renovation was only done 6 years ago, would they not of put one in.

As far as the floor goes it looks like its concrete.

Nothing has changed as far as we can see apart from some of the windows being painted shut...

My house had concrete with no DPM poured sometime in the 20th century which had caused some problems. Elsewhere another concrete floor was laid without one which caused no issues.

It looks like concrete isn't the same as it is concrete. If it's limecrete (a similar substance but with different properties) then no DPM would be OK and might have been intentionally left out to allow moisture to move.

Its also possible that a bodged job could have laid a non breathable concrete floor without a DPM giving you a problem.

Has the building been occupied & heated continuously or stood empty?

 

[Moo]

Oh my word, what a lucky house - to have a new owner who has had the sense to join the forum, where there is a cornucopia of good advice that will help it recover from some very unkind treatment by its previous owner
Do, please, listen to what everyone says and keep us supplied with information and photographs. Especially photographs (we all love photographs!).

xx M

 

[Lime]

Not enough known about the house to give advice except this;
Don't believe builders who suggest modern methods will "solve" your problems.
They won't.

 

[Moo]

Not enough known about the house to give advice except this;

There - just as I said.
Lots of information needed. And did I mention photographs?

 

[Penners]

I can't remember whether you mentioned photographs, Moo. But we certainly love photographs on this forum.