Government advice. Sounds like a wet loft to me

[michael]

There have been several discussions here in the past regarding how to avoid condensation in the loft particularly as the weather gets cooler, a problem that has plagued my property for years. The general concensus of opinion has been to try and stop any warm air entering the loft space and to keep the loft well ventilated. It would seem therefore that there's much trouble ahead for people who follow the govenments guidelines to protecting your home in winter, the pages of which are hosted by the Met office website. http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/learning/get-ready-for-winter/protecting-your-home
They advise :- "If it is very cold, leave the access to your loft open. This allows warm air from other parts of the house to circulate in the loft and will help prevent freezing pipes."

 

[tycarregydwr]

Hmm that does sound like it could lead to condensation. But it's obviously only intended as a short-term measure, in which case, how big a problem is condensation likely to be? A lot less of a problem then the wetness from a burst pipe, would be my guess. My parents' house has suffered burst pipes on many occasions (not in the UK), and it's a real nightmare. I would risk condensation to prevent it, assuming it would only be necessary on a handful of days in the year.

 

[michael]

Surely one should try to avoid putting piework in the loft if at all possible but if its the only way then make sure its properly insulated. Wet rafters, dripping roofing felt and sodden loft insulation from condensation which can form very quickly once warm moist air hits those cold loft surfaces is most undesireable as I well know. I personally dont have any pipework in the loft but the outside pipework I do have serving outside tap, hose pipes etc is properly lagged and has never frozen on me yet.

 

[tycarregydwr]

Yes, I guess it's very unusual for the weather to be cold enough for long enough here for it to be a problem. My parents have had pipes freeze and burst that were inside walls of heated rooms, but on the exterior wall of the house. But that was in prolonged temps of below -15.

 

[Flyfisher]

Lagging cannot, of course, actually keep pipes warm, only slow down heat loss (or heat gain), so prolonged periods of below-freezing temperatures will eventually freeze the pipework (unless the water is flowing).

I rarely worry about overnight below zero temperatures (unless particularly extreme) but if the following day or days are also below zero then I'll turn off the water to the unheated parts of the house.

Having said that, I'm thankful we're in the relatively balmy south of the country!

 

[JoceAndChris]

I can't believe the govt would like us to waste the precious heat by opening up the loft hatches!! No way!! I'm actually thinking of making more thick, fluffy, interlined curtains to hang at the foot of the attic stairs, and the two loft doors, to stop the heat loss up there! Not had any probs with burst pipes, ours are well lagged up there.

In the meantime we've allowed ourselves to turn the heating on. 8) One hour in the morning, 1/2 hr at lunch and one hour in the evening. ( it's an oil Rayburn making hot water and heating 9 rads) Even that meagre parsimonious amount costs £2000 a year!!

 

[tycarregydwr]

( it's an oil Rayburn making hot water and heating 9 rads) Even that meagre parsimonious amount costs £2000 a year!!

Oh my god! That is a huge amount! It is because it is a Rayburn? This is our first winter with oil-fired (via modern boiler) CH, so we have no idea but I'm sincerely hoping we don't spend anything like that!

 

[Lime]

I point out that the tip is one of several under the heading

Some tips if you are planning to leave your property empty over winter

It also suggests leaving heating on for at least an hour a day and heating left on continuously in severe weather.

I wouldn't do either.
Far better to ensure the pipes do not freeze by a combination of lagging (my pipe work where it passes through the loft has 30cms of insulation surrounding it) and draining the systems off/down so that there is no water to freeze.

 

[Lime]

( it's an oil Rayburn making hot water and heating 9 rads) Even that meagre parsimonious amount costs £2000 a year!!

Oh my god! That is a huge amount! It is because it is a Rayburn? This is our first winter with oil-fired (via modern boiler) CH, so we have no idea but I'm sincerely hoping we don't spend anything like that!

When I used oil heating the daily walk to the tank to see how much was left became more depressing/worrying the colder it got.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Oops - hadnt read the "tip" properly - thanks Lime.

Oh, I hope you don't need to spend that either tycarregwydr- surely a modern boiler has got to be more efficient?

Basically with an old Rayburn you pay a fortune to have a vast lump of iron, red hot to the touch, sat there 365 days a year. I could casserole in it every day, but I don't. The 2 k does include all the hot water, all year, and some of the radiators are quite large. The summer heat is very welcome as the Rayburn is sited in a partially sunken stone and brick kitchen that has no other form of heating.

But the heat is insufficient as the house, which is about 1500 sq ft, is too big for just 9 rads, so we supplement that 2 k with another thousand for electric heaters, as well as open fires burning a lot of the time. It seems a terribly expensive way to heat the house but I see no alternative really. This was why the previous owner had to sell.

 

[88v8]

Lofts should always be ventilated, imho. The roof of our 1991 extension was felted as per The Regs, but open at the eaves. I cut some holes in the felt at the ridge, so that was OK.

The ceiling below the tank should not be insulated, so some heat can go up there.
The tank should be well lagged around and above - not below - with polystyrene.
The pipes should be lagged with foam, if in a cold area of the country use this thick-walled stuff
http://www.pipelagging.com/armaflex-high-temperature-outdoor-solar-pipe-insulation-25mm-wall-external-solar-pipe-insulation-c-236_55_59.html
and stopcocks should be wound around with felt lagging, leaving no gaps.
We've never had a burst nor a freeze, even in 85/6.

As to heating, we previously had gfch, and I was all ready to put in oil heating here but then decided to stick with storage rads on the basis that the POs had managed with them + open fires for 40 years so why shouldn't we. Also, and not least, the politicians will endlessly/stupidly interfere with the price of electricity, but will only huff & puff about the price of oil.

Ivor

 

[CliffordPope]

The usual advice on insulating lofts is to make sure that the pipes are underneath the insulation, not isolated on top.
The cold water tank should be insulated all over but not underneath. In effect therefore, anything that could freeze is enveloped in a bubble that is thermally linked to the rest of the house, not the cold loft.