Georgian sash window fun -- draughts :)

[atlasfeveruk]

Hi.
I have already read through related articles on this site, but here is my question: Do the draught brushes/pile (Ventrolla or Draughtfix for example) make much of a difference to draughts for sash windows? I wonder if old sash windows are just poor at air / sound insulation anyway.

Location: Central London
Home: Georgian, Grade II Listed
Windows: Maybe not original, but still old double hung 6 over 6 sash windows, Single glazing

Question:
My windows definitely need a very good painter, to sand off peeling paint and re-paint; but, I am trying to assess whether there is a real need for sash repair/refurbishment work.
I have no draught proofing, and in winter, the draughts are significant. However, do brush/pile strips inserted in the parting/staff bead (standard process it seems), make much of a difference to draughts? I initially thought it just made sense, but after seeing these brushes (different sizes), I am doubtful they could do very much.

FYI: I plan on selling in the near term, and do not have a large budget, so there needs to be a good reason to incur the expense. Ventrolla (so far only one quote) came up with a tremendous price of about £900 per window (2700mm high windows), which is installing the brushes, some sill work and some tenon work (I think weights are fine). Frankly, I'm not really sure if my windows need much repair. I know that they may be on the high end. Oh, and I have no interest in double glazing or secondary glazing. I want to stay within the simple parameters of listed building rules, and nothing that needs special consent, etc. Trying to keep it simple

Thanks.

 

[MatthewC]

Hi atlasfeveruk

Welcome to the forum. You will find lots of good info here - NB it's been a bit quiet here recently (all too busy working on houses?) so I expect there will be more views in due course on your question.

My two penn'orth: I have done four of the fairly large 2 over 2 sash windows on my house; on each I have removed the glass successfully (some of it 2mm and very wavy), stripped layers of paint all back to bare wood (hot air and hard work), repaired the wood, replaced all cord and brass, repainted and finally put the whole thing back together again. It now looks great and t'other half is very happy! The Norfolk latch pulls the two windows together nicely and I have been amazed at how much draught and noise from outside has been eliminated simply by doing this basic work. So I suggest that this is what your windows need, and I wouldn't bother with any of those brushes and seals etc.

NB When Ventrolla did my neighbour's windows, the first thing they did was to smash all the old wavy glass as it was going to be replaced with new. So if you value that sort of old feature, don't let them near it! NB The odd thing was that they had quoted (a lot) for my windows and I had not heard this vandalism get mentioned by their salesman. Hence why I am doing the job myself, five years later.

Matthew

You can see the story of my house on my blog - click on the "Contact" button on the right, then select the webpage icon.

 

[Owain]

If you're moving in the near future there's little point in spending money on hidden work that won't be appreciated by the majority of buyers. A lot of people would probably prefer it if you put in some uPVC junk and took your old windows with you ... ... would they fit in the new place??

If you were staying then getting a competent joiner to fit appropriate draught stripping to the windows would be sensible if you're having them all out anyway. That does not mean £900 per window!!!

 

[Feltwell]

Brush pile strips in the parting and staff beads make a HUGE difference to how draughty a sash window is. They also make them much, much easier to open and close - they just glide up & down. They also stop the windows rattling in high winds. Well worth doing.

How do I know this? Because I'm about half way through doing my windows, currently doing a major refurb on a large bay window that has seen much better days. It's a shame you're not closer, I'd invite you round to see the difference between one that has been done and one that hasn't!

If your window does not need repair then £900 to put in new parting and staff beads and machine a pile carrier into the meeting rail (the minimum you need to do to get effective draught proofing) is daylight robbery. How handy are you? It really, really is not a difficult job - and you can do it all from inside. If you don't want to do it yourself then shop around, it's a job that any half-decent joiner can do.

 

[plasticpigeon]

Yes, I would agree, a decent joiner could replace the beads, which cost only pounds to buy, in an hour or 2, so £900 sounds a lot. However painting sash windows is a bloody pain. I'm a bit tight and there is a lack of symathetic trades people round by me so i have painted and repaired mine myself but it is quite a significant job, and if I felt I had the money to spare, I would get someone else to do it. For what its worth, even though in most areas I would agree that people like the ease of UPVC and to hell with the looks and the history, in a listed Georgian house in London, I don't think any potential buyer would be impressed by plastic windows!

 

[Roger H]

For what its worth, even though in most areas I would agree that people like the ease of UPVC and to hell with the looks and the history, in a listed Georgian house in London, I don't think any potential buyer would be impressed by plastic windows!

Nor would the Conservation Officer, Enforcment Officer or Magistrate...