General Question

[ParsonsJ]

Hello,

I hope this is the right place to ask this question but I am thinking of buying a Victorian house, built approx 1890 that has unfortunately been renovated to within a inch of it's life. My head says I should as it is a beautiful house, perfect location, price etc but my heart says no as the only original feature that remains is the hall floor and the rest is PVC and beige.

My question is really is it possible to put features back in and I guess restore it or now that it has been finished will it ever really feel like the real thing no matter what I do? I am prepared to spend time and money but even things like the skirting boards and door frames have been replaced and I just found out that the owner ripped five original fireplaces out in his renovation which is very upsetting!

Has anyone had this experience, the opposite I suppose of renovating and has it worked?

Many thanks

Jane

 

[JoceAndChris]

Hmm. I'd keep looking, if I were you. I lived in a modern flat in a beautiful Victorian house and I never really got over the fact it didn't have fireplaces or original features. We did our best to make it interesting with colour schemes, and antique furniture - but it's just not the same. If you're the kind of person who would treasure scabby old things, clean them up, get them functioning, then that's what you should have. Let people who like a modern finish buy that house.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Jane,

Welcome to the forum.

There are many answers to this question - and really it comes down to your personal choice.

You can certainly restore and replace original features, and it is a worthwhile thing to do - otherwise the property is lost forever. This does however take time and money, but the end result can be very pleasing. And whilst it is a shame to have lost orginal fireplaces and features, none of us can truly claim that there is nothing in our houses that is not original. Houses after all have an organic history over many generations.

The alternative is to find a more "authentic" property and restore that. The sense of satisfaction of "saving" this can be very strong.

The choice is yours, but it sounds like you have already identified a number of factors in this property's favour, and you could replace as many features (fireplaces, etc) with appropriate period pieces from salvage. Those which can't be found from the original period (windows, skirting, etc) can be recreated by skilled craftsmen (we have some excellent ones on here) and you are then helping to support traditional skills.

Whichever way you go, there is a very helpful forum here to support you in almost every aspect of your project.

Good luck!

Robin

 

[MattW]

I would suggest looking for something else, especially if you want to restore things like coving/cornice or woodwork authentically. e.g. You can't buy softwood mouldings off the shelf that match original victorian houses, so they have to be made from solid by a joinery firm - not difficult, just a lot of additional expense. Equally fibrous plaster for the cornice. Also putting them back will require the newly renovated rooms to be substantially decorated afterwards - i.e. a lot of what you will be paying for will be written off. As such, unless there is something that is unique about the location or position of this house and the aren't others in the area that are equally nice, I'd guess you'd be better off waiting for another one with at least some of the original features intact and in poor decorative condition.

 

[ParsonsJ]

Hello,

Thanks everyone.

I am exactly the sort of person that treasures old things and to be honest I wouldn't have even dreamed of looking at this house apart from the fact that it is in every other respect my dream house in a location I never would have imagined I would ever live so that is why I am even considering it. I really don't think that there are others in the exact area that are as nice, well even if there are I don't know how often they would ever come up for sale. I have just sold mine you see so there is a bit of pressure.

I suppose in a way I have the idea that I am somehow saving the house from it's terrible renovation by in time putting back it's features and I love that idea of it still having an organic history over the generations that is still there no matter how much beige is in it now!

Ah well I will see if the head or the heart wins.

Jane

 

[MdB]

This is your head talking....

I would speak to an Estate Agent in the area (probably not the one who is trying to sell the house) and ask them which type of property goes for the higher value: the one with the Victorian interior or the one with the modern interior? - everything else being equal.

I have no idea of the answer (though I would be interested to know it). I would be worried though that the modern interior would be considered to be worth more and that after spending a fortune on reinstating some of the old features you may actually be devaluing the house. I very much hope that this isn't the case (and I really don't know) but I fear it might be.


This is your heart talking....

It is sometimes a good idea to completely ignore what your head says

 

[vicky whitworth]

Buy, buy, buy. Location, location, location. If you love old houses, and this has once been a beautiful old house, you can make it work. It won't ever be absolutely right but you can't have everything. You will at least be able to give it it's soul back. The only thing original in our cottage were the walls. But we have replaced horrid sixties windows with craftsperson made ones, and ripped off concrete render and lime plastered. I know it's not original but it's as close as I can make it to how it was - and I know the house purists would hate it but I feel honoured and priveledged to live in such a beautiful place, with such fantastic views, and in a house that feels like it's saying, 'thank you'. We love it. If you love it, buy it. Never let your head rule your heart.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

You'd be a "heart" person then??!!

As a man, my centre of gravity is somewhat lower than my head or my heart.






I'm talking about my wallet of course

 

[jocelyn plummer]

Hi Jane,

Welcome.!! I suppose that you really need to decide whether location or the house is your priority.

It might be an idea to continue to look at other propertys whilst mulling over the one you've just mentioned. Our current property is similar i n that many of its original features have been removed, but fortunately fairly tastefully replaced, and it does have a good location, BUT I really cannot quite settle in it, and I own up to putting a recent posting on here about hankering after the house we really wanted.

If you have a sound budget and are energetic enough to slowly re-instate the features then maybe the location will help to create the home you really want.

Best of luck.

 

[AMc]

Hello,

I just found out that the owner ripped five original fireplaces out in his renovation which is very upsetting!

Has anyone had this experience, the opposite I suppose of renovating and has it worked?

Many thanks

Jane

Welcome to the forum.

Lots of the original fabric of our house was removed by previous owners trying to change the way the building was laid out. Owners before that had replaced a lot in the cause of modernisation. IMHO a lot of baby went with that bathwater but there is nothing to do about it now. You can put things back in that are in keeping but you can't reinstate the original so you may never be happy with the results.

It's worth considering that if the current owner pulled out fireplaces then they may have done more significant work underneath which will not be reversible. I have 2 original fireplaces in store but the chimney breast was removed, do I fix them into false stud walls? I certainly can't rebuild the stack without gutting the whole house. Even if that's not the case with this place don't underestimate the cost, time and pain of pulling the house apart to put it back together.

If the house is perfect in all other respects, price, location, size etc. then I would probably buy it and work with it as it is but I wouldn't buy on the assumption you can fully reverse the modernisation just done. From the tone of your post you have already made up your mind not to buy and are hoping to talk yourself back into a purchase you perhaps know won't satisfy you? If that's the case then hold on to your money and keep looking.

 

[Pford75]

I'm assuming that this house isn't listed? Because it can be challenging to 'restore' some period features. For example, replacing double-glazed units with single-glazing can be difficult (and likely to become moreso in the future). Equally, installing open fires if the previous ones have been fully removed, can hit issues with Building Control as they consider it a 'new installation' and in some smoke-free areas, this can be a problem. So, what I am saying is that you shouldn't assume that you can simply 'undo' the modernisation with time and money...local authorities can be a problem also.

That said, I could never buy a home with my head. I've bought investment properties this way, but my home has always been with my heart. If you love it (and love it enough to tolerate the dust, disruption, overdrafts etc.) then I would go for it. It's not impossible to source period features and you can learn a lot about the house in the process of research. Commissioning moulds of cornice or architrave profiles is actually very rewarding (and in my own experience, it is the time rather than the money which tends to surprise).

If you do go for it, a couple of pieces of advice:

1. Don't rush into anything....live with the property, research and plan. Visit neighbouring (unmodernised) properties, speak to long time local residents etc.

2. Don't just buy any old 'period' style features. You want something in keeping with the age and style of the house and a lot of what is on the market is either inaccurate or poorly conceived. I would recommend Judith Millers 'Period details sourcebook' as a good starting point. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Period-Details-Sourcebook-Judith-Miller/dp/1840001372

3. Expect everything to take twice as long and cost three times as much as you planned.

 

[Penners]

As a man, my centre of gravity is somewhat lower than my head or my heart.....I'm talking about my wallet of course

If your centre of gravity is located in your wallet area, then I can only imagine that you must packing some considerable mass below the waist. :shock: :wink:

Mind you, I suppose it all depends on where you carry your wallet.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Trust you Penners!

I meant my "decision-making Centre of Gravity".... but...oh never mind the moment's gone.

Lets go and find more pics of Joce and post them on the other thread. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

 

[ParsonsJ]

Hello Again,

Thanks again everyone.

I have spoken with the estate agent and period house do go for more so hopefully if I do spend time and money it will be worth it. I have double checked that the chimney stacks are still in place and so it would be possible to put real fires back in. I have even found out where the owner sold the original fireplaces to and while they have now sold them they have photos of them after restoration so at least I know now exactly what I am replacing so that is a real bonus if at somewhat eye watering prices. Now I understand why he sold them....

I appreciate everyone's advice and looking at it from both sides helps as this is exactly how I am feeling. Yes you are right about talking myself into buying the house but hopefully in time and (a lot of) money later I can try and make it as near perfect as possible. It is after all still my dream house in a perfect location and as said I can't have everything. All being well it will be a home for a while and I love the idea of learning about how to recreate and put at least some features back over time. I think if I missed out on it I would be kicking myself later.

So decision made I am going to buy it. Gulp. So if you see an extremely beige house on the market in Derbyshire in a few months you'll know I made the wrong decision, if not I'll be back on here for advice on pretty much everything!

Thanks again.

Jane

 

[MdB]

I have spoken with the estate agent and period house do go for more so hopefully if I do spend time and money it will be worth it.

Thanks for letting us know (and I'm glad this is the case). Good luck with the house and make sure you let us know how you get on

 

[Jill]

Hi Jane

We bought the house next door to ours 5 years ago as it was always the dream to convert it back to one house, the offer was put in without me even stepping through the door. First time in I said oh my god what have we done (this was prior to contracts being signed so could have pulled out). We have thought long and hard of the best way to renovate the property, saved up and are in the process of putting in some character. ie replacing PVC windows with wood, laying oak flooring, opening up the fireplace which had been blocked up, replacing the leaking roof, replacing beams. Obviously none of this is original but what was there wasn't all original either. Its took 5 years so far and there is still alot more to do, every single room needs decorating, i've got no proper flooring apart from concrete, no doors downstairs. It has been more work and a greater expense than I would have ever imagined but I have no regrets what so ever (apart from posting some piccys on here which didn't go down to well!) We bought due to the location, the house is now detatched so we have no noisy neighbours which means alot. Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[Jill]

Just seen you have decided to buy, good luck.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Fantastic Jane. Good luck! Keep us in touch.

 

[jocelyn plummer]

Based on your research and a good lead on what was there before, it's a good decision.

Good Luck!

 

[JoceAndChris]

Good luck Jane - it does sound like you've fallen in love in which case there's nothing to be done but pester and fight until you've got the keys!

Buying a house must nearly always involve a big compromise - I compromised to some extent on location as I have to travel 20 miles to hit a posh town, but decided the house more than made up for that and I'd had a very good run of posh towns.

At different stages of your life the awkwardness of those compromises shifts around- you prioritise different things. You sound very excited about the location, and if you're out and about a lot enjoying that you may not feel the need, in a year or so, to set about all the mouldings in the property. You might find that changing the decor and one or two fireplaces is enough.

Whatever kind of property you buy they seem to lure you into spending all the available money you have. Your project, to refortify the house with Victorian attractiveness, will be no less expensive than mine I'm sure, to repair the exterior of the house (20-30k) and redecorate (sky's the limit, if I have my way!) I hope you don't have to replace all the windows as that could be extremely expensive. Also, I hope in the case of your house no-one has slapped inappropriate cement on any section of the outside to cause damp problems within.

Do keep us posted with how it goes!