Gas Pipes

[Flyfisher]

Does anybody know anything about gas pipes and regulations?

I've discovered that there is a gas main much closer than I had previously thought. National grid have quoted me £295 for a supply if I dig the trench on my land, which is no problem.

But, apparently, they can only supply 40m of pipe. Anything longer has to be passed to another company and the cost starts to soar, so I've been told.

40m won't get to the house, but it will get to the outbuildings. Personally I'm quite happy with that and would actually prefer the meter box not to be near the house.

Which raises the question, are there any issues with running a consumer-side gas pipe underground from the meter to the house. Likely distance is about 30-50m depending on where it enters the house (I'd like to keep it outside for as much as possible).

 

[andrew gayton]

to the best of my knowledge, the supply pipe out of the meter into the building has to remain 'internal' and cannot leave the building to go to another so to speak; the rules, regs and costs surrounding any form of underground servicing are completely and utterly nowhere near straightforward and can trigger a 2nd mortgage application.

you finished your roof yet?

 

[Flyfisher]

After various other telephone calls to clarify the gas question above, NG are happy to provide the gas supply to the outbuilding and BG are happy to install the meter and could see no problem with the 'domestic side' piping being run underground to the house.

I also called Corgi and spoke to their technical team (which was nice of them since I don't have a registration number) and they confirmed there was no problem in principle provided the normal routing rules for gas pipes through walls etc were observed. They suggested that a standard yellow plastic gas pipe would be best for the underground run.

So, everything seems OK and I won't need an ugly plastic box near the house.

I have to say that my experience of the utility companies has been wholly positive. EDF have removed two poles, overhead wires and two overhead supplies to the house, laying them underground, for no charge (I dug the trench). It's looking like I can get a gas supply for £300 (I dig the trench again) and BT are going to remove two overhead lines and run them underground for £250 (more trench digging!). So, no more unsightly poles or wires and the service meters are tucked away out of sight of the house. Much better.

(Thanks for your help, Andrew, see you next week!)

 

[nickc]

I faced a similar problem last year - needing to connect to a gas main about 60m from the house. Once you are over 40m you get passed to National's Grid's subsidiary contractor (in my case Fulcrum Connections) who effectively have a monopoly and can charge what they want. I took it up with the Regulator who gave me a list of alternative independent contractors (the supposed free market) but none were interested in connecting a single property.
I then looked at alternatives such as siting the meter at the boundary and then running my own pipework underground to the house (similar to your scenario). The problem for me was that as the boiler was quite large (50kw) I needed a medium pressure supply because you get quite a fall off in pressure over 60m. If the meter is some distance from the house then the pressure on the house side of the meter will be low pressure and I was informed by CORGI that I'd need a 50mm diameter supply pipe to the house. This raised a further problem as most plumbers/heating engineers are not qualified to work at this diameter which is classed as industrial. Therefore I would have needed a CORGI Industrial qualified fitter to certify the pipework which was going to cost a fortune. In the end I had to pay the £1,600 all in connection charge demanded by National Grid's contractors.
Therefore before you start, make sure that a CORGI engineer does the calculation as to the diameter of pipework required.

PS House is now lovely and warm with an Atag condensing boiler, separate zoned thermostats for each floor and supplemented by 2 wood burning stoves.

 

[Flyfisher]

Thanks for that - very interesting.

Fulcrum rings a bell with my discussions with NG also. NG said it would be much more expensive if they didn't do the job, but they wouldn't be drawn on how much more - I can see why now!

Did the £1600 include Fulcrum doing all the work, i.e. including all the trenching? The £300 I've been quoted was assuming I do the trenching on my land, which I can get done for about £250.

I'm currently waiting for NG to arrange a site visit. I'm very close to the 40m limit for my preferred meter position, depending on exactly where the pipe enters my land. Fortunately, I can quite easily move the meter position to within 40m but it just makes the pipe to the house and boiler proportionally longer. I doubt I'll be over 60m from the meter to the boiler though, but you can be sure I'll be out measuring it up carefully tomorrow!

 

[bower1]

Sounds like a bargain to me. The cheapest I've managed for about 8m from water main to house is £2500. Isn't gas more dangerous than water!

 

[nickc]

The £1,600 covered everything including the digging (they used a mole), pipework and connection to the main. The meter is free from whichever supplier you chose.

I really wanted to put in a new water main at the same time but this proved impossible - not because the 2 services cannot be run in the same trench (they can) - but because of the lack of willingness by NG and Severn Trent to co-ordinate the work. So now I've got to dig a separate trench for water. Been quoted about £200 - £300 for that. Does anyone know how easy it is to lay the blue water pipe (32mm) myself. A 60m length will be quite hard to handle I suspect. Do I need any special equipment or just several hands on the job?

 

[bower1]

The problem with doing the water work yourself is that they may want to inspect the whole trench before it is backfilled. I think with water pipe thats almost impossible, as you need to fill the previous bit to hold it in place before continuing. It may be worth trying to work with one of their 'approved' contractors so that they oversee the work. I think this is the correct list for approved contractors:
http://www.wras.co.uk/WIAPS/Groundworker_search.asp

I have found Southwest water most unhelpful and everything is about hindering work rather than acheiving it. I hope for your sake Severn Trent are better. I've given up on the idea again!

In my experience at two previous houses is that Gas companies are much more helpful/affordable.

 

[Flyfisher]

I don't yet know if NG (gas) will want to inspect the trench or whether I can lay a conduit for their pipe. I'm waiting for someone to visit the site and advise.

When EDF (elec) replaced the overhead supply with an underground cable they required me to install a conduit pipe at a minimum of 18 inches, but they didn't want to inspect the trench before it was filled in, which was just as well as the conduit was quite 'springy' (about 40m) and needed the soil to hold it down as we unrolled it into the trench.

I guess all these utilites have their own rules.

Isn't gas more dangerous than water!

I don't think it's particularly dangerous under the ground as any leaks are into free air. I think it's the enclosed gas/air mixture inside a house that's dangerous.

I've had two experiences of gas leaks (many years ago). One was from a flexible pipe into the gas meter in a cellar. I called the gas people and they treated it like a major emergency with a repair team arriving within about 90 mins and instructions to open windows and not operate any electrical equipment, even light switches.

The second was in the road somewhere where 3 or 4 neighbours had also reported the smell of gas and it took a few weeks of calls before anything was done about it.

 

[Penners]

I have to say that my experience of the utility companies has been wholly positive.

I'd go along with that.

A few months ago the water folk came out within 1 1/2 hrs of my phone call to fix a broken main, and worked until about 2.00am to finish the job.

Last week we got a letter telling us that our power would be off on a certain day between 11.00am and 1.00pm to modify a supply to a farm down the road. The power went off at 11.05 and was on again by 11.30.

Can't fault that.

 

[middi]

" It's the way you tell 'em".

When I asked the electric CO. to reposition the wires from my gable end because I wanted to repair it, they said they would send someone in due course to " evaluate" the work with a view do doing the job in about 6/8 weeks or so.

I thought "Bugger this".

I removed some of the derelict render, this in turn loosened the gable "A" frame rafters on which the O/head cables were attached, I rang them back 2 days later advising them that THEIR cables attached to MY house were extremely dangerous and about to fall across a public lane where someone could get electricuted. A nice chap turned up 45 min. later and totally agreed with me, he also advised that it would be better to site the cables underground. The day after 3 man turned up with a ground level meter box( which I had agreed to pay for), a mole and a few shovels, another man turned up with a cable an hour later. By 12.30 pm the job was done. I gave them a tenner for the efficient service.

 

[DaveBrigg]

The cheapest I've managed for about 8m from water main to house is £2500. Isn't gas more dangerous than water!

Blimey!!! Nice work if you can get it. We needed a new supply, and after a quick chat with the water company I fitted the blue pipe from the road to the back of our house for the cost of a day's digger hire. Digging the trench took less than a day (if you don't include the time spent repairing the original water supply, in metal pipes, which had been thoughtlessly laid across the route of the new trench.) Fitting the plastic pipe was child's play.

although we were helped by the house being built on sand; a 1 inch bed is suggested but ours stretches for at least 24 feet. The pipe needs to be deep enough to be protected from frost, which is technically a few feet but with global warming added into the equation may soon change to a couple of inches. Although the pipe was curly, it soon straightened under a couple of barrowfulls of sand. The foreman was certainly happy.

When the chap from the water board came to inspect (after the trench had been filled) he was happy to take my word for the depth of burial. He did check that the far end had a tap on before it was connected to the main, and he wanted to know if a sleeve had been used to protect the pipe where it entered the building.
You need to book a digger for the day, buy a length of blue pipe and a stop cock, and then take the other £2350 and head off down the travel agents.

 

[middi]

Child slave labour is totally illegal and immoral :wink:

 

[bower1]

You need to book a digger for the day, buy a length of blue pipe and a stop cock, and then take the other £2350 and head off down the travel agents

That was my plan, but I can't get the water company to agree up front exactly what they will accept. I get a different answer every time.

Unfortunately, it also includes an easement at £600 as the pipe is in the neighbouring field, plus going under a road with a mole. The water company then takes another £600 for making one connection, and soon there is not much left.

The last gas connection I had (2 years ago) cost £500 and that involved digging 5m of tarmac. Water seems rather disproportionate to me.

 

[Penners]

Child slave labour is totally illegal and immoral :wink:

Cheap, though.

 

[Moo]

I get a different answer every time.

Ask them to put it in writing.

 

[bower1]

I get it in writing, but then when I've checked up on it, you get the "oh, we didn't know you meant that".

Anyway, given up on it for now. Just hope the well doesn't run dry. No chance of that at the moment!