Frustrated Grade II owner

[Anonymous]

Hello everyone, what a knowledgable lot you are.
Can anyone give advice or least say"there, there, it will get better."

We've taken the plunge and bought a part tudor, part victorian house in need of TLC. After initial meetings with local council we were told what we would need LBC for and what we wouldn't. Work started- the basics.

CO came round upon request to evaluate future plans, tools were downed. Everything changed - it seemed all we had been told was no longer valid. Police tape was tied across the door and we were warned of prosecution for holding a brush!

They demanded we get a Conservation Architect to assess the building and draw up reports on every aspect of the renovation. We can't even strip wallpaper or remove an 80's hot water tank without a 15 week approval process.

We understand they have the building's interests at heart but so do we, we're hoping to restore the house but its deteriorating rapidly. We were made to feel like naughty school kids when we were only following the councils initial advice.

Help! Can anyone give us the benefit of their experience?

 

[Anonymous]

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. It sounds as though you are up against jobsworth officialdom of the worse sort - even if well intended. It is your house and you have to live in it. By the sound of things you have sought to do the right things and have the building's interests at heart.
Our experience (in an under-resourced rural area) has been of English Heritage disinterest (because their regional offices are so far away) and Local Authority support, encouragement and willingness to be reasonable.
We have spent ages removing wallpaper without formal approval- it was Grade 1 Listed woodchip! Had it been Pugin we would have cherished it.
When the nasty people threaten you with fines and imprisonment ask yourself this: Is it really likely that such a prosecution would actually be launched? Who has heard of such a prosecution in the sort of circumstances you describe?
Join SPAB and listen to their advice.
Live your life and enjoy your home.

 

[Anonymous]

I must say that our experience has been very different from yours.
Over four listed building renovations I have never had occasion to feel resentful towards a CO. In my experience they have always reacted well to being asked for advice, and thoroughly involved in the discussions and plans for renovation before a formal LBC application goes in.
I hope that doesn't sound smug. I can only suggest that you do your best to get to know your CO and let him/her see that your plans are sympathetic to the building in every respect. Once you earn his/her trust, I hope you'll find the whole situation much more stress-free and straightforward.

 

[Anonymous]

Difficult I agree - but what you may have been told in general terms by someone at planning still doesn't negate many other aspects of working on a listed building which have to come into play, including the law and national policies, along with local authority stipulations. English Heritage will have no part to play in a Grade II building, it's up to your local authority. Some are better than others, although a good CO and a poor one - that depends at times which side you are on - development or conservation.

If you don't know what you are doing, have no conservation expertise or knowledge, simply enthusiasm, then it is very easy to throw out the historic fabric along with much you may consider junk. With a building of this age, for example, it's vital that in stripping wallpaper you don't damage possible remnants of ancient wall painting which lie below, which may be important enough to record and conserve, and that you learn about the joys of lime.

Basic like for like repair doesn't require LBC - but it's as well to have your CO onboard over this, to OK what you are doing. It's so easy to think. 'Well, that window has some rot and a couple of broken panes - rip it out and fit a new one' - losing in the process the two sheets of historic glass remaining, and historic joinery with appropriate moulding for the era of building.

Once it's gone it's gone. Repair not replace!

Your CO is right - hire someone with conservation expertise, to do a conservation plan for the entire building, to consider what is important and what is not. Then apply for the required consents.

Your CO is actually doing his or her job here - and yes, you can have enforcement action taken against you. Or be prosecuted. There's not enough of it happens, but it does happen.

I recommend that you stop and think before doing anything else. Buy some SPAB pamphlets, read some books available from this site and SPAB (Janet Collings book is an excellent start) and book yourself on a SPAB Homeowner's Weekend.

I appreciate it may be frustrating to have delays, but this building is listed as it's considered of national importance. It may be an unspoilt gem and your CO may have recognised that!

We've all done things in the first flush of enthusiam which we now regret. Take time.

Have a look at Jon Maine's website for The Merchant's House (see his profile and follow the links ) and read his conservation ethos etc. It may inspire you.



http://www.spab.org.uk

 

[Anonymous]

It is very unfortunate you have got yourself in this awkward situation.
The only thing to do now is to take the CO advise and apologise for steaming ahead without their knowledge.
If as you say, you care about the restoration of the building, work together with a conservation architect and the CO, you find the total cooperation will lead to satisfactory conclusion for you and the building.

 

[Anonymous]

The moral is not to start on the basis of opinion about what might or might not be approved, but only when the actual approval has been given.

I very nearly came a cropper over the installation of a rear dormer in a previous house. The architect went ahead on the basis of a wink and a nod from the planner, but in the end it was sent to the planning committee, after we had virtually completed it. Luckily it was approved, but in theory it could have been held as being in breach of conservation area status as it was visible (just) from a public place - one square yard of pavement at the end of a cul de sac standing on tiptoes.

 

[Anonymous]

Always get this advice down in writing. You can then say to the CO when he comes round, here, this is what we've been told.

I learnt this lesson many years ago. I'd been in business for 4 years, came up against my first VAT inspection and they found I hadn't been charging VAT on something I should have been.

I didn't have any proof of the phone call when they told me I didn't need to....... Luckily talking nicely to people meant they gave me 12 months to pay off the overdue VAT, didn't fine me, didn't prosecute me for VAT evasion and I only asked for 3 months to pay it in!!!!!!!

TALK TALK TALK to these people, but always at the end of the conversation say, "can you just put that in writing for me please"

After a drink or two, sitting back and thnking about how lucky you are to be liiving in such a nice house and the fact you've written this down and gotten it off your chest, you'll be happier with your lot again

Graham

 

[Anonymous]

Many thanks to everyone for the support, advice and valuable feedback... We have now enlisted the help of a friendly conservation architect who has told us although it's most unusual for him to be called in for a grade II he is happy to assess the building and write to the CO explaining that stripping wallpaper from modern 20C plaster is not going to damage the character in any way!

That said, rest assured we are committed to preserving anything we can (although there's not a lot left - the previous owners unfortunately butchered most of it) and want to restore all aspects using traditional methods and salvaged materials where necessary. We've been in touch with SPAB and are planning to enrol on a lime plastering course as soon as possible!

 

[Anonymous]

all dependant on definition of 'like-for-like'........ try and get an application for e v e r y t h i n g