front doors

[zunetunes]

Victorian property.
The upvc front door has reached the end of it's life.
What views on replacement?
get a local joiner to install a new victorian style wooden door (including frame, modern stained glass and top light)?
as above and use new but authentic looking single glazed glass panels?
would a joiner be willing to install a genuine old door bought at an excessive price on ebay? (could be warped/wrong size etc)?
Composite? :shock:
Any thoughts on prices before I phone around?

 

[malcolm]

Have you tried finding a local carpenter? Proper one that still does wood and stuff for staircases, doors, windows etc. I have found them surprisingly inexpensive for stuff like custom period style doors and windows. Less than the window and door people, and far nicer.

 

[JBean]

If it helps, we've been hunting round trying to find someone to make a pair of internal doors for an oddly sized space in our Edwardian house. After much searching, we found a local carpenter who specialises in timber doors and windows and he is making them in Douglas Fir (which he identified as the wood of our original doors), to a design we produced together. It will cost about £1000 a door, including ironmongery and fitting. That still sounds quite a lot to me, but his work is lovely, and it is much cheaper than some of the other quotes we had. I think the odd size made it more expensive - whereas your front door is presumably a more standard size? From our limited experience, I think it's easier to find carpenters who will make front doors rather than internal doors.

 

[plasticpigeon]

Look in skips, I got 3 front doors for my house from skips, and maybe 5 internal doors, I had so many I gave some away. They are never perfect though, so will need holes filling or old door handle holes plugged and rebates for hinges re cut. I imagine these simple jobs mean decent old joiner is consigned to he skip.

 

[MikeG]

.......... I got 3 front doors for my house from skips......

Your house has three front doors! Wow... :lol:

 

[plasticpigeon]

We all need to something to aspire to!

 

[88v8]

Start with salvage yards.
They're stuffed with doors.
Most Victorian doors were of a standard size, 2' 8" x 6'8" externally for a small house for example.
When you have found a door you like, get someone to make the frame and find someone to make the glass. You may find a door with glass, if you're lucky.
I've also had good doors from eBay. They're not all faulty - many are removed by people who are just too lazy to paint them. Even lovely oak doors get stripped out, god knows why.

Try to avoid those that have been dipped. It usually does them no good.

If a door is warped, that doesn't matter as the frame can be made to match.
When I built our garage I fitted a very warped and bowed C18 door, and I bowed the door stop to suit.

I also fitted two pairs of main garage doors. one 1930s pair from a pub In Birmingham, one Georgian pair from a coach house in Blackpool, both found on eBay.
Making a new door, for me would be absolutely the last resort.

Ivor

 

[MikeG]

.........Making a new door, for me would be absolutely the last resort.

Ivor

This is actually quite a philosophical question, the use of reclaimed material in an old building, and there are good arguments on both sides. The case against using reclaimed materials is that it is putting something out of place and out of time, with no relationship to the present or to the original building. At least with a new door (designed sympathetically) it will be clear in a hundred years time that it was replaced in the early 21st century. It is an honest replacement (honest in architectural/ historical terms).

The other counter-argument doesn't necessarily apply to doors, but certainly does to other reclaimed materials such as roofing: using reclaimed (say) peg tiles or pan tiles helps create or sustain a market for those second hand tiles, which leads to them being stolen from vulnerable buildings by the unscrupulous.

 

[Zebra]

When faced with the same question I considered those options: reclaimed; joiner-made; but in the end settled on new front and back doors made from timber in a suitable style. The main reason was heat loss: my new doors are Part L compliant, making them very good at keeping heat in. They're double / triple glazed, don't attract much condensation, don't warp, and also aren't made from a tropical hardwood. I've painted them in a colour to suit the house, and love them.

 

[zunetunes]

zebra - solid or engineered?

 

[Flyfisher]

.........Making a new door, for me would be absolutely the last resort.

Ivor

This is actually quite a philosophical question, the use of reclaimed material in an old building, and there are good arguments on both sides. The case against using reclaimed materials is that it is putting something out of place and out of time, with no relationship to the present or to the original building. At least with a new door (designed sympathetically) it will be clear in a hundred years time that it was replaced in the early 21st century. It is an honest replacement (honest in architectural/ historical terms).

The other counter-argument doesn't necessarily apply to doors, but certainly does to other reclaimed materials such as roofing: using reclaimed (say) peg tiles or pan tiles helps create or sustain a market for those second hand tiles, which leads to them being stolen from vulnerable buildings by the unscrupulous.

It's certainly an interesting subject and I suppose there is no absolutely right answer. I tend to favour the 'honest' approach and am generally happy to build or repair with new materials but in a style and quality to match the building as far as possible. That said, I didn't apply that principle when repairing our roof and used reclaimed pantiles for the 20% or so that needed replacement and for 100% of the two new sections of roof we've added. The rationale was simply to ensure that the roof remained as a coherent whole rather than a patchwork of new and old tiles. Apart from that, I've refrained from using reclaimed timbers and flooring, preferring to use new green oak as required and using new but locally hand-made pamments for the new kitchen floor, aiming to remain sympathetic to the house but unashamedly new. After all the entire house was new once upon a time, so it can't be all bad :wink: Also, for all our love of 'the old ways' I've not met many period property lovers who love them enough to want the true authenticity of outside lavatories, no running hot water, candles for lighting and no electricity.

As for reclaimed materials, I wonder how things will change in the future? We are living at a time where materials of a few hundred years of age are fairly easily obtainable, but for how long will that be the case? How many genuine Victorian front doors will be readily available in, say, 300 years from now? Wood doesn't last forever and there must come a time when things become genuinely end of life, at which point a new replacement item will be the only option - at which point we'll all be forced to be 'honest' with our restorations.

 

[plasticpigeon]

I have expressed before that I would be more than happy to live in a brand new house if only they were as attractive to my eyes a historic ones, but I really don't like modern utilitarian aesthetics. I have an appreciation of, and moderate interest in social history, but my interest in period properties is pretty much completely based on aesthetics and appreciation of craftsmanship. I generally fix things as I hate to throw away good stuff, especially when I can appreciate the work gone into it, but I recognise the finished result may be less optimal than a high quality new item, but I can live with quirks and idiosyncrasy.

 

[Zebra]

Erm, I don't want to give you the wrong information, I'm afraid I've not remembered as well as I might like to, but I think Part L doors necessarily have a core of insulation and are not solid as such....

 

[Flyfisher]

Erm, I don't want to give you the wrong information, I'm afraid I've not remembered as well as I might like to, but I think Part L doors necessarily have a core of insulation and are not solid as such....

I think you're right. The new oak stable door we had made for our kitchen extension has insulation in the bottom half (celotex I believe) and DG in the top half. I didn't specify it that way but presumably the joiners made it to comply with the prevailing regs (this was about 2/3 years ago). However, the building control inspector didn't ask for any proof of Part L compliance so I guess he just assumed that a new door would be compliant (the DG clearly was).

 

[Flyfisher]

I have expressed before that I would be more than happy to live in a brand new house if only they were as attractive to my eyes a historic ones, but I really don't like modern utilitarian aesthetics.

I feel much the same way. I've seen some wonderful brand new oak framed houses and would certainly be happy to live in one. I do sometimes despair at new houses - why oh why do are they often so bland and box-like? I suppose the easy answer is cost, but I'm really not that convinced because, on average, people today must surely be far more wealthy than those of 100, 200, 300 years ago. I also can't believe it's a fundamental skills issue. Whatever the reason, it is quite depressing.

 

[Spoilt Victorian Child]

Look in skips, I got 3 front doors for my house from skips, and maybe 5 internal doors, I had so many I gave some away. They are never perfect though, so will need holes filling or old door handle holes plugged and rebates for hinges re cut. I imagine these simple jobs mean decent old joiner is consigned to he skip.

I've managed to find almost every internal door (bar the front door) in skips within a year. With a few to spare.

There's a lot of refurbishments going on round by me, I couldn't understand why so many people were chucking out their original doors. But then I realised anyone having a loft conversion (which is everyone, round by me) will be told the old doors don't meet the fire regs which come into play when you have a loft conversion. So they just chuck all the old doors away. :-O

You wanna be trawling the Victorian des-res hot-spots in your town that are slowly getting farrow and balled.