Flying Freehold and roof problems

[Katier]

Good morning, I'm Katier, a new member. I live in a 160 year old cottage with a flying freehold. Underneath the front of my home is another 2 storey cottage, the back of my house exits onto the road and we have a cellar.

My problem is that the neighbour underneath has a chimney, attached to mine, and gas extractor which exits through my roof. The structure is leaking and needs work along with a complete roof replacement. Would anyone know what the legalities of asking him to contribute to some of (not all of) the roof work would be?

The previous neighbours contributed to gutter cleaning at the side of the house we both share (at 4 storeys high this was quite a feat!).

Would I be liable if his chimney outlet was out of action for a while? I cannot find anything like this on the archived posts and have asked the 'agony uncles' but they dont always reply so I'm told.
thanks, Katier

 

[middi]

Hi katier, I am not an expert in these matters and I have an hunch that if nothing regarding this is specified in any deeds or agreement about shared right of use and so on, you may have to keep friendly with your neighbour if you want things done and get on with a peaceful life.

Check on any deeds about this if you can.


Alternatively block off the chimney at your end, wait fifteen minutes and your neighbour will be in touch with you like a shot

(only joking ! )

 

[Penners]

Katier

I really think you need professional advice on this. The legal responsibilities in your flying freehold are probably set out in the deeds of your property, your neighbour's, or both. But you need to be very sure of your rights and responsibilities before you start any negotiations with your neighbour.

In your shoes, I would make an appointment to talk to my solicitor about the matter.

 

[Moo]

And if it's the same solicitor who dealt with the conveyancing, and your current problem was not anticipated and dealt with at that stage, I'd want to know the reason why.

 

[Katier]

Thanks everyone.
I dont think the deeds include anything at all about the flying freehold, so i may just use your suggestion Middi! (only joking too!)
I will speak to the neighbour before the solicitor i think, it may be the best way - ask first and only go legal if necessary!

 

[Penners]

I will speak to the neighbour before the solicitor i think, it may be the best way - ask first and only go legal if necessary!

Well, yes. In principle you're right. But it's still dodgy going forward with anything on the basis of verbal assurances. At the very least get an exchange of letters between you and your neighbour, detailing exactly what is to be done and who will pay what towards it.

 

[Katier]

I will make sure that there is something in writing before i proceed, or that i have a cheque in my grubby little hand! :wink:

 

[Paul Hopper]

Katier


The details must be on your deeds somewhere together with rights of support, maintenance and acess responsibilty;

I assume you bought it recently.. unless it had been inhabited for hundreds of years by the same people (or landlord) thus no deeds)There must be detail somewhere,

If your solicitor let you purchase without conditions or at the very least a warning that there were potential problems then you may well need to have a serious talk with them;

Do NOT be afraid of solicitors or the Law.It is there to protect you.

if they have omitted information or not searched thoroughly enough then not only do you need to know but they do to so they can fire the party who failed in his professional duty,

Did you have it professionally surveyed?

Let us know..

Paul

 

[Craig]

its possible there is nothing in the title docs about shared maintenance, but there will be land law precedent or statute. Ask a lawyer and understand what you are entitled to - and on what basis your neighbour is entitiled to use your space.

 

[Katier]

Paul, we bought the house 6 years ago, and, no, the solicitor did not raise any issues at all. I checked out flying freehold myself. Since then i have re-mortgaged, and am in the process right now of doing so again (lower interest rates). I would not have a clue where to find the deeds.

I do know that the law is there to protect me, it just seems to cost a fortune to find out anything nowadays.

It may be a good time now to ask the solicitor about the deeds. I will do do when they get in touch.

 

[Penners]

Chances are the deeds are with your building society or your solicitor,

 

[skier-hughes]

I'm surprised you've had no trouble with any of the mortgages, as when we tried to buy a place that had a flying freehold over a cellar which was owned by next door, most wouldn't touch it with a bargepole :roll:

Graham

 

[Moo]

When we bought our present house our solicitor sighed with great weariness when he spotted that there was a flying freehold. I still think that your solicitor has fallen down on the job.

 

[Katier]

We have never had any trouble with getting a mortgage and i have always mentioned the flying freehold. did have some problems with insurance though!

Whilst there are no more houses of this kind in Keighley (other than the terrace that i live in - and even then some of the cottages cover the whole 4 storeys) there are lots in Hebden Bridge, so perhaps the mortgage companies in West Yorks are used to this issue?

I'm not too sure what i can do about the solicitor. Paul, we did have a survey, but probably not a full structural one. There is no problems with the house (damp & timber rot free apart from 1 small beam over the bathrrom window that has weevils- we have just had it all checked) other than the roof, so we have never had to consider any issues until now.

 

[tumbledown]

I have a property with a flying freehold. There is absolutely no mention of it in our deeds (or our neighbours). I have remortgaged 3 times with no problem, never had any trouble with insurance. I have probably been lucky that nothing has ever needed doing. I don't think it is unusual at all not to have any mention of it in the deeds, particularly with larger properties which were devided up many years ago.

 

[Katier]

Ours is not a divided large property, it was built this way.There are 9 properties in the terrace and most have another 2 story house built underneath, though 3 cover the whole 4 storeys and 1 has 2 addresses!

We also share a garden, which is at the side of the house next to mine, shared by 3 properties with 'hanging rights'. This caused some consternation for the insurance company last year when the old stone outhouse was hit by a car and we (all 3) had to make seperate claims for the damage. One poor surveyor was very worried about the hanging rights and when they were allowed!

On another issue, (I may need to post another thread) we have maintained, rebuilt and restocked the garden since then and none of the neighbours wanted to contribute as they never use it. So far its cost us about £1000. What do 'hanging rights' mean and can we now claim the garden (we have cared for it for 6 years without any complaints or help) if we allow access to the other 2?

 

[Paul Hopper]

Katier

Best get this sorted now otherwise when you come to sell I can almost promise you problems with B.Soc. (prospective purchaser) their solicitors and as and when it comes in. The dreaded HIPS survey assessment.

If nothing else at least get the plans attached to the deeds (with your B.Soc. I expect). amended to show the extent of the Flying Freehold, that way you will have at least addressed the issue. As far as responsibilities are concerned for you It may, as others have posted, be a matter of local custom, and as such almost impossible to define. There might not be a truly definitive answer but some research is worth while.

I looked at a house in Cornwall for friends a while ago and to my horror found that the building had once been 5 different dwellings under one roof. The previous owner had joined them all up again (leaving sheaves of deeds! ) but had then created further problems by reattaching the house to a larger adjoining house with shared access, and shared support to one first floor room and a large part of their garage area.

It took co operation with several sets of solicitors and the preparation of a new plan, plus the inevitable "custom of the area" principles. in order to tidy it up. It did not cost that much though.

Best to settle it if you can or show willing. It will help no end later on.

Paul