Flue liners

[DaveBlair855]

Evening all,
First of what I'm sure will be many posts asking for help and advice so please be gentle...
My wife and I have just purchased a 400 year old cottage in Kent. Like most buildings of the period, it is built around a central chimney stack, one end of which opens into an Inglenook fireplace. A second (currently disused) fireplace is situated "back to back" with the Inglenook. Both fireplaces are serviced by flue liners, both running up the central stack.

Ideally, we would like wood burners in both rooms, but the first advice we obtained (from CICO) was that it was against regulations to have two flueliners in one chimney stack. Additional (verbal) advice from a HETAS fitter we have obtained since indicates that this does not always follow. I have looked at the Section J regs for guidance, but frankly they might as well be in Greek.

Any advice or clarity re this would be greatly appreciated.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Dave - welcome to the forum, and period property ownership.

I don't know the answer to your question, but I am sure someone will be along shortly.

Cheers

Robin

 

[Moo]

May I second that?

xx Moo


- and at the same time bump your question back to the top of the list where it's more likely to be noticed by those what know about such things

 

[AMc]

Ideally, we would like wood burners in both rooms, but the first advice we obtained (from CICO) was that it was against regulations to have two flueliners in one chimney stack. Additional (verbal) advice from a HETAS fitter we have obtained since indicates that this does not always follow.

I can imagine that sight unseen it would be a bad idea to have two flue liners in one 'normal' chimney but then most fireplaces aren't 400 year old inglenooks! Yours is probably more roomy than a 2 up 2 down would have.

A HETAS registered fitter can self certify their work conforms to building regulations - you don't need to understand them in depth. I would go and see a local woodburner shop, take a look at the stoves you like and get them to come and take a look. If a HETAS installer is happy then I would be happy, if they're not they'll probably have other options for you.

Depending on your room configuration and there are wood burners with doors on either side which allow you to fuel from either side e.g. http://www.stovax.com/products.htm?cid=4&sid=9&pid=636
If you use both rooms at the same time (or they're not too big) it might make more sense. Lighting one stove and keeping it fueled might be easier than two.

 

[Moo]

There - it worked!

Now stand by for more experts to agree/disagree with/refine what AMc says.
You'll find that PPUK people are always very happy to share their knowledge and experience.

 

[Pford75]

Is it a single chimney inside the stack or is it separated with brick 'feathers'. Many old stacks are actually subdivided in this way, so that whilst they appear from the outside to be a single chimney, they are in fact separate ones. You may be able to ascertain this from visual inspection or the fitter or a sweep can do this.

I would agree with AMc that if the HETAS fitter says it's okay, then you don't need to concern yourself further.

 

[Penners]

stand by for more experts

That'll be me, then.

NOT.

But I do agree with AMc. Your best bet is simply to call in a HETAS installer. They have to comply with professional standards, one of which is presumably adherence to the Building Regulations. So you'll get reliable advice.

 

[DaveBlair855]

Thanks for all the advice (and sentiments!). Very reassuring to know that you are out there! Think I will double check re the "feathers" issue as above, but will trust that the HETAS fitter knows his onions. Watch this space...

 

[ljn]

I would like to burn wood/coal in two fires on different floors that share the same chimney stack but have separate chimney pots. I hope this means I can have two chimney liners.
The Chimney sweep is coming to have a look next week.

"Feather" is that a brick partition wall?

In preparation I opened the bricked up fireplace and discovered 3 dead seagulls, 2 pigeons and some smaller birds. No lack of feathers in my chimney.

I have laid out the mummified birds on the floor. They smell bad - apparently dead seagulls do. It is quite horrible to think of what a horrible death they had.

Cowels, I'll definitely fit cowels, listed building consent permitting.

 

[Nemesis]

I would like to burn wood/coal in two fires on different floors that share the same chimney stack but have separate chimney pots. I hope this means I can have two chimney liners.

Then in all probability you have two separate flues, separated by 'feathers'. Those may leak though, with degradation of the mortar.

 

[Pford75]

"Feather" is that a brick partition wall?

Yes

 

[Nemesis]

Not always brick. It is simply the term for whatever separates one flue from another. More usually mid-feathers or withes.

http://www.spab.org.uk/html/advice/technical-qas/technical-qa-27-chimney-maintenance/?PHPSESSID=2c514b3df205

Mid-feathers
The traditional chimney is divided into the various flues with mid feathers built of brick, stone, or slate. The mid-feathers are often the first unit in the chimney to fail as generally they are not tied in to the rest of the chimney structure and will collapse.

http://www.solve-chimney-problems.co.uk/pages/section6.html

 

[Penners]

I opened the bricked up fireplace and discovered 3 dead seagulls, 2 pigeons and some smaller birds.

What's the betting your chimney sweep will bring dislodge a partridge in a pear tree?

Your chimney is unlikely to have liners - just the two flues. And as it was designed to have open fires in each of the two fireplaces, whether or not it has feathers full height shouldn't make too much difference, provided the original builder knew his stuff.

Just remember not to panic if the first fires that you light smoke a bit. If the flues have been disused for some time, they may have got damp and cold, which can often be the cause of a smoking fire. Try to burn some good, dry material, such as dry pine, and get a good steady flow of heat going up the chimney. This should soon clear the "plug" of cold.

 

[DaveBlair855]

Have now received some advice from a HETAS approved company the suggests that two flueliners can co-exist quite happily in a single chimney without any real issues, as long as sufficient measures are taken to keep them insulated, ie rockwool etc, which is a relief.

Next question- given that the flaunching around the existing chimney pots will probably have to be removed and replaced once the liners are in place, will we need Listed Building Consent to do that work, based on the assertion that we would be looking to replace the mortar like-for-like and recycle the pots if possible?

Any thoughts?

 

[Flyfisher]

It's not a given that the pots will need to be removed to fit the liner. When our liner was fitted the pot was not removed. We had a bird guard/rain cap fitted at the same time and this was fitted to the liner before installation such that the liner was effectively 'hung' from the chimney pot. So I guess it depends on the precise details of your installation.

Having said that, you might find that the flaunching needs some repairs anyway, in which case I don't believe you'd need LBC - provided it really is like-for-like and you don't want to change the pot, of course.

 

[Penners]

I find it difficult to believe that a busy CO is going to be concerned about the removal and subsequent replacement of some flaunching around a chimney pot, but if you're worried you could always give him/her a quick call to ask.