Floorboards - survey/builders

[EmmaT]

Hi all,
I'm new to the period property lark and this forum (and blonde!), so please treat me like I know nothing!

We're in the process of trying to buy a terraced cottage, built around 1850s we think, and I've got a couple of queries following the survey. Most of it is the usual surveyor-speak covering worst possible scenarios, and we've got some roof work quoted and renegotiating price.

One thing that was mentioned in the survey is that the living room and master bedroom (directly above) floors are slightly 'bouncy'. The kitchen and 2nd bedroom floors don't seem to be a problem. However, nobody seems to be prepared to say why they're bouncy and why this might be a problem - to me, most floors in older properties are sligtly off-kilter and flexible. However, my other half is treating this like it means the whole place is falling down but can't explain why other than 'my father was concerned that the floors were bouncy'. The company we had in to assess the woodworm and potential damp (yes to the first, no to the second) also commented on this, but couldn't investigate as the current owners have fitted carpet with hardboard underneath (!!).

What might it be, and why is this such a big deal? (and why won't anyone professional even take a guess at what's causing it, which is annoying me more!).

 

[middi]

Hi Emma.

It is not unusual for a mid 19th cent. cottage floor to be bouncy, some are very bouncy.

The bounce is more pronounced if the span of the joists are longer, the bigger the room the more the bounce.

Some of the floor joists fitted in victorian times were not subject to the building regs we have to endure, as long as there is no serious decay or woodworm problems it should be fine. After all it has been there for 150yrs.

It will not affect you anyway- you are blonde-

 

[EmmaT]

Thanks, that's pretty much the basis I'm working on - we're getting some woodworm treated, so if it's affected by that it'll stop it getting any worse. If it's decay, then obviously we'll have to take the cost on the chin and get it sorted. I'm guessing that if the current owners have fitted hardboard under carpets, that's going to affect the 'feel' of the floor anyway. Will have to wait and see what we uncover!

 

[Gervase]

If you want to stop the boounce and are exposing the joiists anyway, consider putting in some noggins; these would deaden the floor considerably.
That's only if the joists are to be exposed, though - pulling up and relaying floorboards isn't usually a bundle of fun, while an existing lath and plaster ceiling should be treasured.

 

[RobT]

Hi Emma,

I once owned a 1.5 storey thatched property which had very bouncy floors.

The bounce was due to the external walls spreading under the weight of the roof because some of the tie beams were either removed, cut or suffering from severe decay.

The movement of the walls meant that the wall plate which the floor joists rested upon was now angled leading to the joists either balancing on it or becoming detached altogether.

This kind of problem is typical of many humble timber-framed properties.

But don't get alarmed. All of the suggestions from other posters are plausible.

What happened to me was a worse case scenario.

Regards

Rob

 

[phil]

hi Emma
As long as the woodworm keep holding hands you should have no
problem...
Seriously though, I live in a 200yr old place with bouncy floors,
which flex alarmingly in high winds ! We`ve been here 30 years
and got used to it.
If the ceilings under these floors show no signs of cracking, then
you don`t need to go lifting floorboards - indeed, I would recommend
that you don`t anyway - all fixings contribute to the stability of a floor.
good luck
Phil

 

[Penners]

Emma

I echo what others have said - bounciness in itself isn't anything to get too worried about, so long as it is inherent in the floor, and not the result of deterioration in the flooring joists.

Without being pessimistic about this, you might want to file away a couple of ideas just in case you should find that some deterioration has taken place.

If the ceiling below is unimportant, you could take it down, in order investigate the problem more fully. Then, if reinforcement looks advisable, you could (a) bolt some reinforcing timbers to the existing joists, or (b) install some additional joists midway between the existing ones. Assuming the construction of the house is masonry, these could be supported on joist hangers.

If you don't want to damage the ceiling below, you could consider adding a supportive cross-joist under and at right-angles to the existing joists, midway across the room below. This would effectively halve the length of the existing joists and reduce their flexion. Once again, this cross-joist could be supported on joist hangers, or on posts set against opposite walls of the room. Naturally this latter option is more intrusive, and its desirability would depend on how much headroom you have in the room below.

 

[EmmaT]

Thanks guys - I'd rather know what the worst case scenarios is, rather than a lot of head shaking and flexing of knees when standing on the floor but no answer. My main problem is that I'm of a lighter build than our surveyor/builder and therefore can't feel the floor flex at all!

Really useful to have some suggestions on what it could be, so it gives us something to look out for - should have a better idea of the condition of flooring once we've got the carpet out. Thanks again.

 

[Penners]

Emma

Do come back and tell us what you find, when you investigate the floor more fully.

David

PS: Oops! I'm in trouble. Just told my wife that I'm typing a note to a blonde about her bouncy floor.

 

[middi]

Lucky escape Penners !!!!!.

( If it was a man she would have kicked you out ).

 

[Penners]

Escape??

You clearly don't know Mrs Penners. This won't be the end of it....

 

[Gervase]

If it was a man she would have kicked you out

So don't ever mention his bouncy floor...

 

[NT]

Slightly bouncy floors are normal in Victorian houses. The reason no-one would comment is because your query is a warning light, youre already complaining about a non-problem.

Worst case scenario is the floor turns out to be rotten through, your kids fall through it one day, breaking their necks, then the wobbly wall finally topples over the edge due to lack of the bit of stability offered by the joists, and the whole house come down and kills you. Then your surviving relatives find out the insurance was invalid due to some technicality.

You did ask. However I dont think the worst case scenario is particularly relevant.

Surveys are to pick up on any faults that can be easily detected, they do not guarantee the property, as there is much they dont assess. They just improve your odds. If accurate.


NT

 

[Penners]

Worst case scenario is the floor turns out to be rotten through, your kids fall through it one day, breaking their necks, then the wobbly wall finally topples over the edge due to lack of the bit of stability offered by the joists, and the whole house come down and kills you. Then your surviving relatives find out the insurance was invalid due to some technicality.

NT - you forgot to mention the Aston Martin Vantage driven by the Sultan of Brunei that the collapsing house crushed.

 

[NT]

Worst case scenario is the floor turns out to be rotten through, your kids fall through it one day, breaking their necks, then the wobbly wall finally topples over the edge due to lack of the bit of stability offered by the joists, and the whole house come down and kills you. Then your surviving relatives find out the insurance was invalid due to some technicality.

NT - you forgot to mention the Aston Martin Vantage driven by the Sultan of Brunei that the collapsing house crushed.

and the ensuing gas explosion that killed 10 neighbours.
And the subsequent digging for foundations that unearthed the bodies put there by your one and only surviving relative.
And bubba the cellmates dodgy ideas of fun.

Gee I'm cheerful


NT

 

[Penners]

And bubba the cellmates dodgy ideas of fun.

Now you're starting to worry me.

 

[NT]

lol

Think what the poor OP must be going through.


NT

 

[Paul Hopper]

I think our sense of humour is deteriorating..

Its the rats that feed on the bodies in the old cellars that bother me most!

Paul

 

[Penners]

I think our sense of humour is deteriorating..

No - mine's always been this bad. Just ask anyone.