flint walls & part L building regs

[willyuk]

Can anyone give any advice about how to resolve a conflict between the part L requirement to insulate walls and the desire to refinish with traditional finishes?
I am renovating a nid 18C flint cottage. The cottage has in the past been painted on the outside with a masonry paint. I am told that this would be impossible to remove without causing damage. On the inside the walls were originally lime plastered. At some point the internal walls had been covered with pine wood panelling with loft insulation behind the panels. On removing the panels , the walls were found to be very damp and the plaster was falling away. Once we removed all the cladding and the plaster , the walls dried out and we are now repairing the walls and the brickwork around the window openings.
My builder tells me that under building regulations part L we are obliged to dry-line the walls to provide insulation. I am worried about this for two reasons:
1) The walls will no longer breathe and therefore the damp will return, leading to even more deterioration in the fabric of the walls.
2) The rooms are already very small with window reveals that are about 2ft wide, adding a further few inches of stud and plasterboard will make the rooms even smaller and will give window reveals totally out of proportion to the size of the rooms.
Do I have any options about how to resolve these conflicting requirements? I would have liked to just re-plaster the original walls in traditional materials, thereby allowing them to breathe. However I realise that this will not meet modern insulation requirements. However the dry-lining option will I believe lead to further problems.
HELP! and thanks

 

[GK]

..... the internal walls had been covered with pine wood panelling with loft insulation behind the panels. On removing the panels , the walls were found to be very damp.....

So, no vapour barrier then? That dampness was almost cetainly condensation from the interior of the house, and nothing to do the breathability of the wall. Still, fitting one may have been incompatible with the rest of the construction. I wonder if your wall is actually "breathable" anyway if it's covered in masonry paint.

What are you actually doing that makes the work fall within building regs? Why don't you just get on and lime plaster it all? Does it have something to do with the skills that your builder has?

Someone will be along soon to ask if your house is listed, and to suggest ways of deflecting the attention of your BCO and good lines to spin him/her.


Thank goodness that FAQ damp post is in a different colour now, and the post topics are neatly lined off.

 

[Nemesis]

I find the lining off makes it better, as with the Damp Faq, and wish the posts could once again be separated in that way, but the highlighting every blessed post as the cursor moves over it is really hard on the eyes. The typeface is awful too. Wish it was a different font and larger. Using the enlarge text button isn't always the answer. Wish the drop down menus at the top weren't so trigger happy, I'm really struggling. Lot of clutter. But how long do you bet before my post is censored and this para removed... :shock:

I was going to ask if it was listed, and if any contact has been made with the BCO (this could be deemed repair...) and if there is any conservation guidance on the website of the local authority which may address the issue. EH's interim guidance on part L should be read too.

It's not law, Part L. Builders aren't always terribly clued up.

http://www.helm.org.uk/upload/pdf/EnergyConservation.pdf

Also - removal of some of the paint might be possible - who has said not?

 

[willyuk]

The work comes under BC as we have built a small extension, re-roofed completely ( all new timbers) and had to dig out the floors. The need for part L came from the buildings inspector from the council when he visited to inspect the foundations and dig out of the floors. He said "I will need those walls dry-lined".
Nowt to do with builders skills as he is not down to do the plastering.
I realise it may not be a legal requirement but was hoping for a completion certificate when the work is done.
thanks for the suggestions, I will follow up the guidance notes

 

[Nemesis]

If you don't get any joy, try your Conservation Officer and also SPAB, which has a free advice line.

You don't have to have your own BCO sign off the work either... you may find another a little more amenable...

It's crazy and destructive I agree.

 

[Nemesis]

Some of this could prove useful:

http://periodproperty.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9009&p=102324&hilit=conservation+advice#p102324

 

[Gervase]

The inspector may say he wants the walls dry-lined, but it may be worth pointing out that under the new Part L guidelines, the emphasis is on a 'whole house' basis; that is to say that one can offset some areas against others. As older buildings generally have smaller windows and thus less of an acreage of glass, that is one trade-off, and another is to ensure that your loft and other voids are insulated to the max. Do talk to your local conservation officer and seek his/her advice.
There's also the English Heritage guidance on historic buildings which, although intended primarily for listed buildings, can be invoked with sympathetic BCOs, as can PPG15 on dealing with older buildings.
Failing that, is there any way that you can persuade the BCO that work on the property actually started before April 1st 2006, as that is when the new Part L came in?

 

[AMc]

Continuing the 'whole house' approach of Part L - You can also offset underperforming elements buy using a renewable heat source - log boiler, pellet boiler, ground or air source heat pump, solar water heating. I believe that micro generation is also applicable e.g. photo voltaic solar cells, water or wind turbine. Of course all of these things will cost you money and many are inappropriate in many circumstances.

Another alternative is external wall insulation - as we don't have a picture I can't begin to suggest if that's a suitable option - it probably isn't but it is worth mentioning as your external walls are not really breathing now.

 

[willyuk]

Thanks to all for the suggestions so far. The whole house approach is worth exploring as we will be adding insulation to the floors as they are being dug out, the new roof is fully insulated ( a warm roof), the extension has insulated cavity walls, and the new wooden windows will be double glazed. All this to the approval of the BCO so well up to spec. the only issue we have is the remaining external walls. I have already contacted the local conservation office and await a reply.
Finally, if I cannot reach agreement with the current BCO, is there an appeals procedure and anyone know how likely it is to be successful? If not, what is the real impact of ignoring the BCO ruling?

thanks

 

[inwood]

Note that almost all building regs make some exceptions/exemptions for listed buildings. In particular part L:
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_ADL1B_2006.pdf
(see page 7) classes listed buildings as an exempt building type, although I haven't had time to specifically see whether this relates to all of Part L or only a subsection of it. Maybe someone who can read the detail without getting thoroughly confused can advise further. It may be worth bringing the exemption up with your BCO.

I had a similar dilemma when it came to replacing two of my oak windows with regards single vs. double glazing. Fortunately my BCO was clued up with listed building exemption so allowed the single glazed units to be retained.