Fleur-de-lis ridge tile repair

[Kinclad]

Hi,

I wonder if anyone could help me, it would be appreciated.

We have a mid Victorian house that has lost virtually all of the Fleur-de-lis cloves from the ridge tiles (chipped off). I'm planning on hiring a cherry picker for the week to perform some repairs and paint the house and boards etc.

So what I would like to do is try and source some replacement clay Fleur-de-lis cloves and find a way of reinstating. I don't plan on removing the actual ridge tiles but maybe looking at angle grinding out what is left of the chipped off cloves and putting in the replacements on a bed of mortar.

Does this sound feesable and anyone have any ideas on sourcing the replacements?

Thanks,

Mark.

 

[LadyArowana]

Like these ?

 

[Flyfisher]

My immediate thoughts are that if you're just going to replace the fleur-de-lys elements then mortar may not be the best thing to use because it's not really very sticky and is very weak in tension, i.e. doesn't hold things together very well. My guess is any mortar would easily crack and then birds or even a decent breeze would dislodge them. If you're not replacing the whole ridge tile (and I don't really blame you then I'd think about using an appropriate adhesive rather than mortar to fix the new bits. I'm not sure what 'appropriate' means in this context but my feeling would be some sort of epoxy-type stuff.

Having said that, I've never tried anything like this myself so I'm really only guessing. With any luck a passing expert will drop in with a better answer.

 

[Kinclad]

Thanks Flyfisher.

Please see pic. As you can see the cloves have been chopped off from the ridge tiles. As you have said to replace the whole ridge would be a nightmare and not something I could do. So I want to leave the ridge tiles and try and bed some new cloves in, so yes maybe I need to use a modern product for this eeeeek? But i guess I still need someone to make up the clay cloves as well.

Mark.

 

[Schoolmarm]

You would struggle to get a neat, height line due to the way they have snapped off. Plus it would be damn near impossible to get a good join and fix.

They are still made or you could get reclaimed ones if you do decide to replace.

 

[Schoolmarm]

Here for example;


http://www.dreadnought-tiles.co.uk/ornamental-finials.htm

 

[Kinclad]

Thanks for your replys.

I don't think I'm likely to go down the whole replacement route as the roof is 'tender' enough already and I can imagine large qty's of tiles being dislodged and broken...could become a nightmare.

Maybe I just need to try and tidy them up as best as possible, cant believe previous owners/workers were so clumsy breaking so many of them off.

Cheers,

Mark.

 

[DaveBrigg]

as well as the difficulties pointed out, you may have a problem with colour matching. This is not quite such an issue as it is working at ground level, and will ease over time, but if you are using new replacements they will stand out for a while.

 

[Penners]

To be honest, I think your chances of "gluing" on a new line fleur-de-lys finials satisfactorily are pretty low. As Flyfisher says, I'm sure that mortar - whether cement or lime - wouldn't be effective. And even if a resin glue worked, getting the finials at a uniform, neat height is going to be extremely difficult.

Given that you regard the roof as "tender", I can only say that, were it mine, I think I would wait until the day when more extensive work is required, and then do a proper ridge-tile replacement job.

 

[Feltwell]

I agree with Penners - leave them alone. Replacing ridge tiles is not a hard job, they're just bedded on a layer of mortar - and in theory the only tiles you disturb are the top row. If your cherry picker will reach the ridge such that you're not having to put any weight on the existing tiles you should be OK.

However, theory and practice are 2 different things! And if you think your roof is on the way out anyway, I'd leave it until you do major repairs / replacement. Ridge tiles aren't cheap either - the plain crested tiles that I wanted were £20 each new - each tile is 12" long, the cost very quickly mounted up! I found reclaims in the end at £4 each for cash, but they are like rocking horse poo if you want a good number, all matching in an exact specification. I compromised, but they were only for a garage so being "close enough" to the ones on the house was OK.

New, I reckon you'll find that your ridges are £20-£30 each + VAT.

 

[Kinclad]

Thanks guys...your advice has been very useful.

I have the cherry picker for 3 days so I will stick to :

Sanding the facia boards then painting.
Painting the render.
Clearing the guttering.
Painting the stack.


Also looking at replacing the 3 pots on the main stack. There is only one original left (the middle) so the problem now is sourcing the 3 identical pots (would prefer original/reclaimed). And of course without being up there I have no way of measuring the size pots I need, I guess I can do some guesstimating based on the bricks underneath it?

Also is there a skill to the flaunching for the pots, I have a reasonable degree of capabilities with a trowel and mortar, none of the existing flues have liners and I'm not interested in the effort and expense of putting them in (only 1 is in use anyway). Also whats the best way to keep the birds out, currently they have a form of clay/terracotta cover on them (I'm sure there is a name for them!) Is there and alternative as I think they spoil the look of the pot.

As I say only 1 is in use and it running a wood burner in our living room. I guess it should be lined but its been running a fire for 140 years and there is no smokey smell in the upstairs rooms etc.

Thanks Again,

Mark.

 

[Flyfisher]

Thinking again about your ridge tiles, I wonder whether a cherry-picker would enable you to get close enough to them anyway? Assuming you'll need to work from the top of the cherry-picker cage, wouldn't the slope of the roof prevent you getting the top of the cage close enough to the ridge tiles?

Still, all a bit academic now - and you seem to have enough other work anyway.

As for keeping birds out of chimneys, there are a variety of caps available but be aware that it's not just the birds themselves but the sticks they seem to love poking down the chimney, so a fairly fine mesh might be needed.

 

[AMc]

Also whats the best way to keep the birds out, currently they have a form of clay/terracotta cover on them (I'm sure there is a name for them!) Is there and alternative as I think they spoil the look of the pot.

I can only see two pots in the picture but the one with the pot hat on is used to cover an unused flue. The purpose of the hat bit is to stop rain entering the flue but allow air to pass and prevent the flue becoming damp inside. You aren't supposed to use these on live flues as they don't premit enough draw (AFAIK). So I'm not sure how you're get 3 matching pots on 1 live and 2 unused stacks?

I don't see any better option than that without risking a damp unvented flue or a flue that collects rain - perhaps others have other options.

Our 'live' flue has a metal cowl on the top with a solid top (for rain) and mesh around the sides to allow smoke out and keep birds out in the summer - it's held onto the original pot with three long bolts that clamp it in place. I haven't seen anything more attractive.

 

[Kinclad]

Hi AMc,

Yes, sorry you can't see the live pot in the pic. Had to crop the pic down to upload and lost it.

Ok, I understand so the 'pot hat' that you mention on the white pot is designed for a unused flue.

I understand the need for ventilation but the only thing I'm unsure about is the rain cover, I look at chimney pots on houses and regardless of being live or not....many do not have covers? or am i not looking closely enough?

Cheers,

Mark.

 

[Pford75]

I think you are right. Many fireplaces have fallen out of use over the years, but people haven't then decided to get their chimney pots changed. We have the same issue...one of our fireplaces is no longer used for fires....but haven't yet looked at a different pot (not least because it would require LBC)

 

[Penners]

I understand the need for ventilation but the only thing I'm unsure about is the rain cover, I look at chimney pots on houses and regardless of being live or not....many do not have covers? or am i not looking closely enough?

You're right. Lots of people have unused chimneys that aren't protected from rain ingress - but they should be. And as has already mentioned above, ventilation is vital.

I'm an amateur, so this is not professional advice.

Flaunching the pots into place is not difficult if you have modest experience of mixing and handling mortar. I shall probably excommunicated for heresy, but this is one of the few applications for which I would favour cement mortar incorporating a waterproofing agent. I believe a 1:4 cement:sand mix is the norm. Don't make the mortar too sloppy. And of course, wet the top of the stack and the pot thoroughly to reduce suction.

If the pot covers the hole in the chimney stack that's fine. If it doesn't entirely do so, then you'll need to arrange some pieces of slate to prevent the mortar from dropping down through the gaps.

You need to ensure that the mortar tapers away steadily from the pots to the edge of the stack, to ensure good water run-off. But don't let it become too thin at the edges, as this can increase the risk of frost damage.

On the few occasions that I've done the job, I've always embedded some small-mesh wire netting into the mortar, to strengthen it and reduce the risk of cracking. I've no idea whether a professional would agree with this practice, but it seems to have worked OK for me.

Finally, a warning note. Do be careful about not letting anything fall from the top of the chimney on to the roof - tools, old bits of mortar... yourself! If your roof is already in a deteriorated state, you could cause considerable damage.