Flagstone Floors Again

[GPHouse]

All

I know the topic has come up in some form on a number of occasions but I cant find, here or on the wider www, a guide to restoring Flagsone Floors. I dont want to lift them just repair and conserve whats there

I have a Blue Lias floor and I have been looking into renovating them - can anyone provide a step-by-step to how they would best renovate them?

As an initial stab my thoughts were :

• Clear Room

• Use scraper to remove any loose / delaminated stone and any 'stuff' (save some delaminated stone)

• Carefully remove any conrete/cement patching

• Scrape out joints or carefully use a multitool to do this

• Use a floor cleaner and stone friendly cleaner to clean the floors

• Wet and Dry hoover to suck up moisture

• Clean again if necessary

• Wet and Dry again if necessary

• Repair holes where necessary with Stone Repair Mortar and Stone dust from the delaminated stone

• Point the flagstones with Lime mortar (colour appropriately) - can you use lime plaster / mortar dust and then moisten?

• Seal the flags with a breathable sealant (something beeswax based for example).

 

[sevenleaf]

I am doing someting similar at the moment, and it sounds like a very sensible and well considered approach to me. That said, I am very much a (conscientious) DIY novice...

The only thing I would suggest is that you seal the flags before pointing, for two reasons. From my research, I understand that:

1. The majority of the breathing of te floor is done through the lime pointing, which you do absolutely do not want to seal.
2. It will make any stray pointing easier to clean from the edge of the flags if they have been sealed already.

Good luck, and be sure to post some pictures as you go along!

 

[GPHouse]

Thanks - soundls like a sensible tweak to the process

Have to say I;m slightly aprehensive about the repeair elements.

 

[Greg.Hobson]

Have to say I;m slightly aprehensive about the repeair elements.

Our Front Room sits above a cellar that does not extend all the way into the house. Where the floor of this room sits on (what I assume to be) solid ground, we have started to get damp patches throughout the recent summers. I ascribe this partly to changing water levels/saturation in the ground - we often get new springs occurring in the general area after heavy/consistent rain - but is probably more due to the carpet being over 25 years old. Where the floor sits above the cellar, there are stone slabs, but no damp patches.

SWMBO was also very apprehensive when I suggested digging out the whole floor and rebuilding the same, relaying the slabs. I think it was the belief that I could get one of these new-fangled "mini-diggers" in through the house to that room to deal with the heavy work that really caused some worries!

I have yet to receive permission to execute the plan . . .

 

[GPHouse]

Im only lifting a couple for repair purposes and an not under any listed constraints... so this will will go 'unnoticed'. Interested in this new fangled digger though/// what is this magic of which you speak.... i may have need of one for a different project.

 

[Greg.Hobson]

Interested in this new fangled digger though/// what is this magic of which you speak.... i may have need of one for a different project.

Thanks for the interest in this - it has made me find out more about them and therefore have moved closer to the day when I actually get one in!!!!

The proper name is "Micro Digger". A quick search found this http://www.kilduffhire.co.uk/images/TechSheet1.pdf which shows a typical machine available for hire (other machines are available ).

I have always been worried about the floor loading of these little beasts and this one comes in at close to a ton + driver weight(!). The last thing I want is to have one of these drop into the cellar. That would mean I would need something bigger to lift it out. :twisted:

Already I feel my own project has moved on . . .

 

[GPHouse]

Like it! I may have a use.... Are hire rates reasonable?

 

[Flyfisher]

I've done a fair bit of work with my own mini-digger, albeit a 1.5 ton machine, but only outside the house.

TBH, I'd say that a micro-digger is overkill for lifting a few indoor flagstones because:

1. it takes quite a while to become 'safely proficient' at the controls
2. they are quite powerful machines and can quickly do a lot of damage if things go wrong (see 1)
3. filling a house with exhaust fumes is not a great idea, so plan accordingly and very carefully
4. diggers are very good for digging but are no so good at lifting unless you have an 'edge' to work from . . .
5. . . . even then, it would be quite easy to damage the flagstones (see 1)
6. to create an 'edge' for the digger to get under you'll have to lift the first few flags by hand . . .
7. . . . and if you can do that then you don't really need a digger machine (see 1)

Personally, I'd prefer to equip myself with some good crowbars and/or pickaxes plus suitable fulcrums than risk potential mayhem by bringing a digger indoors.

 

[GPHouse]

Agreed - but I have another floor where I may need one. Concrete, laid on soil by a previous owner / clown. Its cracked, damp and uneven.... and I fear it may be covering a well in one corner of the room. Its about a foot thick in one corner, and an inch in other parts from what I can see....

I would get someone i know, proficient with diggers / digging machines to do it... I think it may just save my sanity!

 

[88v8]

In our cellar we have 3" flags 2' square. I could lift one with a crowbar and some wood padding to save the edges, but once lifted it was quite unliftable by me, however our beefy builder managed it.
The 6" concrete floor in our sitting room was bust up by another beefy chap with a Kango.

One can't lay floors with a digger. That will need to be done by hand. So using a digger to take them up, quite possibly dropping one on another, seems not a great idea.

Ivor

 

[Kearn]

Agreed - but I have another floor where I may need one. Concrete, laid on soil by a previous owner / clown. Its cracked, damp and uneven.... and I fear it may be covering a well in one corner of the room. Its about a foot thick in one corner, and an inch in other parts from what I can see....

I would get someone i know, proficient with diggers / digging machines to do it... I think it may just save my sanity!

A digger feels potentially overkill, on many levels - costs, dirt/fumes, lack of precision/access, damage to what may be underneath!? I've recently taken out approx. a foot of concrete and screed from an old (1600s) animal shelter now part of our house. Took a couple of long days with one of these http://www.southernplant.co.uk/construction/breaking-drilling/breaker-electric-heavy.html?___SID=U and most of that time was removing the broken up material and shifting it to the skip! Room was 4mx4m.
Aside from this being relatively cheap to hire, it wasn't top of the power range, so manageable to use plus ran on mains voltage which was a simplicity bonus. A point chisel made quick work of the floor, usually just with the weight of the Kangoo itself - we had a 2-3 inch screed (in fact varying eras of screed across the room) -the bonus being the thickness, most of it had blown and it came up in easy slabs. Under this was again, various concrete areas, all about 10 inches in depth, some patches mixed with a lot of flint aggregate which was as hard as it got. None of it was a problem to break, and you can obviously chose the size of waste you want to remove - I found the larger the better so I had more lifting / less shovelling to do! It was a bit noisy, so you'll want some ear plugs and goggles.

Not knowing the age of your house, or previous use of the room in question, but from the well comment, assume it was once outside and if you are very lucky, any previous floor may have just been covered over - with a hand held Kangoo, you can be surprisingly delicate and controlled and see what you're doing with the ability to stop easily if you find something, using the point at a 45 degree angle to coax material off without damaging what may lay beneath. I was looking for an old brick floor (unfortunately long destroyed) but there were a decent number of Tudor brick pavers pulled up and used as ballast on top of the plastic sheeting under the concrete, which I managed to gently remove for re-use - a digger would have destroyed these, whereas the Kangoo broke the modern surface, and then I dug carefully with a small hammer / trowel / hand to uncover any finds. Additionally, I uncovered an early Georgian foundation for a yet to be determined structure, which again would have been damaged by a digger. And there are all of the other finds that you may encounter - bones, shells, claypipes, pottery...

I'm also curious as to the clues you have that make you say it is soil underneath and also the prescence of a possible well?? Presume some investigative holes dug already?

Good luck with it!!

 

[Kearn]

GPHouse - in case you're interested, here is what I found under my concrete... http://www.periodproperty.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16018

 

[GPHouse]

Thanks for that.Useful.

The concrete floor is gash to put it mildly and its cracked - and breaking down in places. i drilled an exploratory hold at the other end.

I found out about the well as I met someone randomly (not local) who used to live next door 20 years ago and they said they had recollection of one being in there.

 

[Kearn]

The concrete floor is gash to put it mildly and its cracked - and breaking down in places. i drilled an exploratory hold at the other end.

if that's the case, the Kangoo will be fine, in fact a sledge plus hammer&bolster may be enough!!

I found out about the well as I met someone randomly (not local) who used to live next door 20 years ago and they said they had recollection of one being in there.

expect the unexpected!! my 70 year old neighbour, who has lived in our village her whole life, vividly remembers an old brick floor in the room I dug up when it used to be a kitchen, 20ish years ago. Yet the concrete was from the 40s / 50s and there unfortunately hasn't been a brick floor in that room since early Georgian times!

As an aside, an indoor well not in a cellar seems intriguing - was this room once external to the property and later incorporated into the house?

 

[Me!]

Aside from this being relatively cheap to hire, it wasn't top of the power range, so manageable to use plus ran on mains voltage which was a simplicity bonus.

As another option, especially if you have any more similar work to do in the future, please be aware that you can buy a similar(ish) spec machine for the same price as hiring that one for a week -
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Demolitio...502850&hash=item1a3453d561:g:OUsAAOSwraZZlfA7
OK, I'm not claiming it is the same quality as a Makita one, but it has a one-year guarantee and could get a lot of use in that time.

Or, a even maybe a refurbished one for the price of hiring for just two days -
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Titan-TTB...455495&hash=item3af1e67220:g:amYAAOSwFjlZum9l

I know that if storage space is a problem, or if something will never be needed again then hiring seems like a good idea, but to my mind the rates charged do seem excessive for many tools.

 

[paulc]

As another option, especially if you have any more similar work to do in the future, please be aware that you can buy a similar(ish) spec machine for the same price as hiring that one for a week

If you purchase one at a reasonable price, it can always be sold on again, and chances are, you'd not lose much money in the process. I picked up a wall chaser for around the same as it would cost for a weekend hire with the intention of selling it on when I'm done.

 

[Kearn]

Aside from this being relatively cheap to hire, it wasn't top of the power range, so manageable to use plus ran on mains voltage which was a simplicity bonus.

As another option, especially if you have any more similar work to do in the future, please be aware that you can buy a similar(ish) spec machine for the same price as hiring that one for a week -
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Demolitio...502850&hash=item1a3453d561:g:OUsAAOSwraZZlfA7
OK, I'm not claiming it is the same quality as a Makita one, but it has a one-year guarantee and could get a lot of use in that time.

Or, a even maybe a refurbished one for the price of hiring for just two days -
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Titan-TTB...455495&hash=item3af1e67220:g:amYAAOSwFjlZum9l

I know that if storage space is a problem, or if something will never be needed again then hiring seems like a good idea, but to my mind the rates charged do seem excessive for many tools.

Very true, if you're going to have more use for it - I wouldn't be able to help myself digging more stuff up!! Indicative prices, I only needed a couple of days so cheaper and also went for something lower spec than the Makita so all in, it wasn't overpriced. I suppose it's all relative, if the OP was originally thinking of hiring a mini digger plus operator then this is a comparative steal!!