Fixing Skirting boards

[thiambal]

Right - I am in one of my characteristic dilemmas (see previous post about trimming a door)...

I have removed some skirting boards most of which was modern stuff and a few bits of original which more woodworm hole than wood.

I am now going to attach so new stuff but I am a bit stuck on how to attach the stuff. I have seen it done before with screws straight through into the brickwork - the countersunk screws are then filled over before painting. This is effective BUT - it occours to me that if anyone wants to remove them in the distant future they will be damn near impossible to get off is screwed on.

The old ones were attached with square floorboard nails passing through the board - bits of spacing wood behind and into the wall. I can see myself running from end to end hitting one nail causing the other end to pop out etc.

So......what the secret chaps / chapesses?

 

[GK]

Screws straight into the brickwork? I want some of those. Maybe you mean drill right through the board and wall, tap red plug right through and screw. OK if you can identify the sound bits of wall.

Can you drive new wedges in? Fish the old ones out and cut some new wedges, over long. Drive them in firmly but carefully. Then plumb a line down the sticking out wedges and cut them off. You bought a handsaw, didn't you? Then fix skirting with bright steel nails if you want to be able to pull them off.

Don't forget to scribe the internals. And the bottom of the board if the floor is uneven, you can use your jigsaw for that.

 

[middi]

If you are too worried about future removal of skirting, countersink the the screw hole by about 10/12 mm and use wood pellets about 10/12mm diameter to cover the hole and sand flush.

When they have to be removed use a screw and pull them out in order to get access to the skirting screw.

Fiddly but very effective.

 

[geoff]

You could try using the tubes of 'no-nails' stuff. I've heard of a quite a few people using it - skirting doesn't need to hold any weight, and it's easily removeable if glued on. It avoids drilling and filling or masonry nails (which I find never work anyway) etc. and doesn't disturb the fabric of the house.

 

[thiambal]

GK - yes of course I was over simplifying when I said screw straight into the wall. Thank you for spotting it

Wedges sounds interesting - not quite sure exactly what this means - are these wooden wedges drived into the mortar? - how exactly do you do this effectively?

Wood pellets? - where can you buy - how do you manufacture these? How do you counter sink a hole so that they fit effectively.

I try and avoid no more nails - it does exactly what it says on the tin - but I generally find that the bond is stronger than the wood itself and it just destroys everything if you ever try and get it off. Anway, the walls are not plastered to the floor and so there is nothing to no more nails it to.

Cheers eveyone - you are stars

 

[Andrew Bodenham]

I generally screw skirtings on. Lay the skirting on the floor in its intended location and mark the board where you think you'll hit a brick / stone / area of anything solid. If your walls are like mine then you might need to do some probing to find suitable places to fix.
I use counterbored holes, later plugged with plugs cut from offcuts. I create the counterbore first with a 10mm or 12mm forstner bit, then put the board in place and drill through into the wall. In stone or brick I like to use the excellent Multi-monti screws sold by Screwfix - these go direct into the masonry without plugs, and pull up superbly - just right for persuading the skirting to follow a wavy wall. In softer walls I use Fischer wall plugs and 5mm screws.
Once screwed in place I plug the screwholes. I have a nice Veritas plug cutter which produces slightly tapered plugs. These are just tapped in and flushed off with a sharp chisel. You do need to use a drill stand / pillar drill with a plug cutter. Axminster is an excellent source of drill bits etc.

I've tried the various "instant goo" adhesives, but have never been convinced. They can't cope with any sort of tension in the joint, and I've always ended up using mechanical fastening to support pieces during curing. I don't like nails - banging anything hard in my house seems to disturb the masonry / plasterwork too much.

Talking of distubing masonry, have you tried the new generation of drill bits from the likes of Bosch and Irwin. These allow drilling without hammer action in stone, brick etc., even with a cordless drill. Great for loose walls with crumbly lime mortar or plaster, or for fixing close to the edge of a brick or stone. I use them all the time now, only resorting to the SDS if I hit something really hard.

 

[thiambal]

Andrew - that all sounds very professional - alas I do not have the money for all the extra tools required at the moment - certainly not a pillar drill.

Also - although plugs give a nice finish - once they have been painted over for a couple of decades they are going to be invisable and impossible to find.

My concern is that when, in another 100 years someone wants to remove the skirting boards - they will have a hell of a job if they are screwed on and cannot find the screw heads.

On the subject of the wedges - anyone know how to install these and make them hold in an old wall? I imagine they would have originally be installed as part of first fix

 

[GK]

Fixing grounds into the joints is a time honoured way of fixing skirtings and door casings to masonry.

For skirtings, rake out the perps (vertical joint between bricks) every so often. Then take an offcut - a piece of floorboard is usually handy, and cut the width to the height of the joint you've raked out. Effectively about 3 ½ inches or so.

Then you hack the offcut so that it can driven into the gap. Leave it long. It doesn't matter that the end gets bashed, or that it ends up looking up or down a bit, because when all the wedges are tight you plumb a vertical line down each one and cut them all off with a gash handsaw ('cos you end up scraping the teeth along some masonry).

Done right the skirting goes on first time nice and flat.

For the joints that you're raking out, pick pairs of sound looking bricks that can't move sideways. You can usually tell when you're driving the wedge in, whether it will stay put or not. If it's a bit dodgy pre-drill your nail holes (smaller than the nail, obviously).

Just seen your latest post: driving the wedges in after the wall is built is usually better than building them in, as long as the masonry is sound.

 

[Nigel Watts]

I agree with GK. Very often the old ways are indeed the best ways. With nice soft lime mortar between the bricks a wooden wedge driven in as a ground for nailing is a very good solution - why bother fiddling around with screws and rawlplugs?

Large skirting boards, assembled from two or more components, often need to be supported by short vertical battens which are proud of the wall, rather than directly against the bricks. When fitting these I sometimes screw the battens to the bricks before nailing the board to the batten. Screwing the batten on allows you to have a few goes at getting the thickness right (because you can remove it if it is too thick, plane a bit off, then try again - handy if the brickwork is uneven).

 

[BMcD]

I think it depends on how far your plasterwork stops short of the floor. If it's 3" - 4" or more then GK and Nigal Watts method is best but if it only stops short 1" - 2" then drill and plug straight through into the brickwork. Don't be worried about anyone taking them off at a later date, why would they want to?