fitting an oak door frame.

[robgil]

one side of the frame is about 2 inches of thin air between the frame and the old house which is wattle and daub and the other side of the frame is an old clay lump wall that isnt very strong at all , so basically i have nothing much to fix the frame to on either side.
the frame is 90x90 mm oak and the top part is fixed with mortice and tennons to each side piece.
any ideas on how to fix this in to position? i have thought about putting each vertical side piece down around 6'' into the ground then filling in with lime cement to try and hold it into position , any thoughts?
the door will just be a bog standard wide oak plank ledge door.

 

[robgil]

this is what i am trying to do.

 

[biffvernon]

i have thought about putting each vertical side piece down around 6'' into the ground then filling in with lime cement to try and hold it into position , any thoughts?

That could be annoying for whoever has to deal with it one day when the bottoms rot.

 

[robgil]

i thought they might rot , i did think of using a damp barrier around the bottom of the frame but it still sounds like a bodge, any ideas how else to fix this frame in?

 

[Flyfisher]

Wouldn't a maintenance drone be fantastic?! If you've got Huey then I'll claim Dewey, leaving the others to fight over Louie's foot*. :lol:

* All is explained in "Silent Running", the movie.

 

[Andrew Bodenham]

With that sort of section you'll not need any intermediate fixing if you can secure the head and the bottoms of the frames. So what happens at the head of the doorway? Anything there you can fix into? And at the base? Given the other materials involved I'd not be surprised if you said it was just soil, or quicksand. Ideally you'd have a big stone slab to span across the doorway, and maybe set the oak onto this using some stainless dowels fixed in with resin. Space the oak off a few mm and point round with a waterproof goo to stop water getting into the end-grain. Failing the stone slab you could cast a threshold slab in concrete.

Once it's secured top and bottom you can build up the gaps at the side with whatever mud / dung / lime mortar / sprayfoam you want to use. A chunky batten nailed onto the wall side of the the frame uprights will help to fill the gap and will provide lateral restraint once built-in.

Could you extend the horns of the head enough to build them into the existing walls if there's nothing else to fix to at the top?

Definitely avoid building any timber into the ground - it's a recipe for later trouble.

 

[robgil]

the head does extend around 3'' past the uprights , i may be able to fix this at one end to a stud in the old house wall. its the clay lump i am more worried about , its around 6' long and 7' high , its not tied in to anything and is just free standing , it needed some work around the base and as a result is very unstable , it wobbles when i press against it. i could use the rafters to somehow steady the wall from above then tie it into the external wall but id still rather not try to support a door frame from it. there is nothing decided yet to go above the frame , more clay lump and a leaded light have been a few ideas so i may be able to do something there.
i think i will use a slab under the frame , its just clay at the moment. cement with a dpc would be best?

 

[chuckey]

I am with Andrew, drill a couple of holes into the "feet" of the door frame to tightly fit stainless steel studding. Poke studding into hole (where the kick step should be) fill hole with that "C" stuff .
Is this an outhouse ?, whats to stop water running in? or if the inside floor is higher then the outside, fix the frame backwards into the edge of the floor.
Round here, they would pound a hole through the flag and either poke the frame ends into the hole, or make smaller holes and use a patent fixing which is a "pin" (1/2" diam, about 4" long) with an extended flat section say 3/4" wide and 4" long which is nailed to the door frame with the pin going into the slab. Either method leads to the ends of the frame to rot.
Frank

 

[robgil]

it was an old earth floored wood store off the side of the kitchen , i will be putting floor bricks down in the wood store bit. the door frame that was there before had rotted badly so i need to replace it.
ive dug down about 7'' and have put some lime mortar down in there with some large bits of aggregate to help hold it together. another problem i have got is the floor level in the old wood store will be 6'' or so higher than the old kitchen floor (brick currently under screed) so i need to create a step.

i am thinking i should fix it like this using the studs mentioned or some sort of bracket..

 

[Jill]

Robgil, we have recently had an oak door frame constructed very similar to your design, the oak doesn't come into contact with the floor below at all, a gap has been left of about 1cm, we still have to lay a wooden floor so this gap will be covered up eventually. Don't you think you need to address the stability of the wall before fixing the frame? I have visions of the first time the door is slamed shut that the wall will come down

 

[robgil]

i am trying to stabilise the wall but short of taking it down and rebuilding it there is very little i can really do , i have ran a bit of 2x4 along the top of the wall between the wall and the rafter so its fixed from wobbling in one direction , i will do the same to the other side before fitting the frame. my worry is that the clay lump wont hold a good , strong enough fix for the frame.

 

[Flyfisher]

It's difficult to see from the sketches, but would it be feasible to extend the door frame uprights all the way to the ceiling rafters? That might give a more secure fixing point than the clay-lump wall and might even help to stabilise the wall itself.