First time buyer - Victorian pointing question!

[cheeseandcats]

Hi all

We've found a Victorian terrace that we really like, but have some concerns. I think it has had, or currently has, a damp problem due to some bubbling in one of the walls (and what looks like a patch where black mould has been wiped off).

Would love to pick some of your guys' brains before we go gun ho on what might be a bigger problem than we can afford!

My question is, does the pointing look like they've used cement? It's impossible to tell what the original pointing was (in my opinion), but it's in the South West and it looks like the neighbouring house still has lime mortar (it's a much lighter colour).

I'm assuming that, if it is cement, it'd be near impossible for us to move in and get it repointed due to damage to the stones to dig the cement out? Has anyone done this to a property (and can tell us how much it cost them?).

They've also added double glazing and blocked off all the fireplaces, which is a separate issue but could be causing issues.

 

[lizziecupcakes]

Hi there!
I can't see what issues you see in the last photo, do you mind pointing to where I should be looking?

The pointing on the front (and first photo) looks like cement mortar (i.e not lime). My house has this too (edwardian property), but we do not see any issues from this but I think it's because the floorboards let in a lot of draught so we have this for ventilation. I think a lot of period properties have unfortunately been done this way. The outside of the house looks like they may have had it rendered recently, but not painted?

I'm not sure the second photo is showing bubbling? Did you touch is, try to press on it? It could just be a poorly done job where they didn't level it out properly and just painting over it. Some people don't care about these types of details. It would personally bother me. If it is bubbling though, it could indicate a damp problem - what wall is that? it looks like the chimney breast. is this the only affected wall?

Does this property have suspended floors? Is there draught coming in - that might be a good source of ventilation?

Yes, the blocked up chimneys may be causing an issue - they need ventilation too. Do they have a ventilation point at all? If not, it could be an easy case of just opening them up again, but you won't know what you're dealing with behind it all.

I would ask the estate agent/owner questions in an email about the things youre concerned about, including the state of the fireplaces, when they blocked them uo, how they blocked them up etc. This is what we did and the owner was happy to answer them. I think things like this are better in writing.

 

[cheeseandcats]

Hi there!
I can't see what issues you see in the last photo, do you mind pointing to where I should be looking?

The pointing on the front (and first photo) looks like cement mortar (i.e not lime). My house has this too (edwardian property), but we do not see any issues from this but I think it's because the floorboards let in a lot of draught so we have this for ventilation. I think a lot of period properties have unfortunately been done this way. The outside of the house looks like they may have had it rendered recently, but not painted?

I'm not sure the second photo is showing bubbling? Did you touch is, try to press on it? It could just be a poorly done job where they didn't level it out properly and just painting over it. Some people don't care about these types of details. It would personally bother me. If it is bubbling though, it could indicate a damp problem - what wall is that? it looks like the chimney breast. is this the only affected wall?

Does this property have suspended floors? Is there draught coming in - that might be a good source of ventilation?

Yes, the blocked up chimneys may be causing an issue - they need ventilation too. Do they have a ventilation point at all? If not, it could be an easy case of just opening them up again, but you won't know what you're dealing with behind it all.

I would ask the estate agent/owner questions in an email about the things youre concerned about, including the state of the fireplaces, when they blocked them uo, how they blocked them up etc. This is what we did and the owner was happy to answer them. I think things like this are better in writing.

Thank you so much for your reply!

The last photo is in the top right hand corner - it looks like the shadow that's left behind when I wash black mould off of my (rental) home walls.

Thank you for the pointing comment, everything on Google indicates it's a major issue, but it's useful to hear that might not always be the case.

I did give it a poke and it's bubbling rather than solid plaster - it's the chimney breast in the bedroom directly above the lounge, and the only room that has that problem - so potentially an issue focused around the chimney, which is useful to think about! It's got suspended floors and air bricks outside so should have some ventilation that way.

Will send the estate agent / owners an email about these points - tried to ask the agent at the viewing but I think a proper email to consider would be more useful for everyone. Thank you so much again for all the points to consider, going to note it down and write an email!

 

[lizziecupcakes]

The last photo is in the top right hand corner - it looks like the shadow that's left behind when I wash black mould off of my (rental) home walls.

Ah, i see. It could be mould that's been wiped away but does the property look newly decorated? i Have some edges around the top of the walls or the ceilings appear a bit darker, but there's no damp issue. My property hasn't be redecorated since probably the 70s-80s. If it's real old decoration, it might just be down to aging. The walls on your photo don't look freshly/newly painted though. On a second viewing, take a collapsible ladder and have a feel of it (this is what I did). Maybe you'll be able to smell bleach closer to it? On the outside, is there any faulty or old guttering? Have you had a look in the loft too?

Thank you for the pointing comment, everything on Google indicates it's a major issue, but it's useful to hear that might not always be the case.

It can be a major issue, but I've learnt from this forum that millions of people have period properties and all all the modern stuff to them and they seem to be okay, butttt, some properties won't do well with the modern stuff. It really depends. There is always needs to be a balance between ventilation and insulation, even in new builds. I personally will be adding double-glazing to the back of my house at some point, and want to repoint the mortar with lime in the future, but since it's not cause a problem i may just leave it. What I will definitely do it either keep my original internal lime plastering or re-plaster it with lime if it's deteriorated. My aim is to keep the ventilation going because i think this is what's kept the house in good condition so far (except for my parapet wall and corner of my roof which is causing me a headache).

I did give it a poke and it's bubbling rather than solid plaster - it's the chimney breast in the bedroom directly above the lounge, and the only room that has that problem - so potentially an issue focused around the chimney, which is useful to think about! It's got suspended floors and air bricks outside so should have some ventilation that way. i asked things like "has the property ever had any damp and/or mould issues", "any leaks", "age of the roof - any paperwork - has it had any repairs" (in proper sentences, of course). There was once house I went to see (before I found the one i bought) and it had a big crack in the ceiling, but it wasn't anywhere else in the house. I raised in with the estate agent and they told me the vendor said it was nothing to worry about, just a bit of normal house movement, but on a second viewing, they covered the crack and painted over it like nothin ever happened. I was highly suspicious, so I didn't make an offer on it. Looking back, I think the roof was probably a bit overloaded. My house was vacant and the estate agent and vendor really encouraged us to see it as many times as possible, so for us these were all green flags.

Ah, so it is bubbling. It might be down to moisture locked in the chimney breasts or salts in the chimney that draw moisture. I have a slight problem with that in an upstairs bedroom but it's at the top of the chimney breast and just under the ceiling. I very much doubt the previous owner got a chimney sweep in to help with soot and salt build up. It might also be the wrong type of material used as plaster on the chimney breast. You also mentioned it's in the upstairs bedroom... if you can, have a look in the loft to see any potential damp. It could be a small leak going down through the bricks, but I think you would notice some type of damp marks in the ceiling too.

Will send the estate agent / owners an email about these points - tried to ask the agent at the viewing but I think a proper email to consider would be more useful for everyone. Thank you so much again for all the points to consider, going to note it down and write an email!

I would just add to be super polite too. I dressed it up as feedback and can the vendor get back to us about a few things we noticed. They should answer them, but sometimes they might just say "get a surveyor". Luckily, my estate agent was really good and the vendor was a nice person who was just looking for the right committed buyer.

 

[lizziecupcakes]

Also, have the walls been plastered with gypsum? If so, those darker edges you have seen might be down to damp, but a better photo and taking a closer look yourself will really help

 

[Stevers]

Nice Oolitic Limestone Ashlar dressings - probably 'Bath' Stone fairly recently cleaned. The infill is Pennant Sandstone - also seen all over South Wales. If the Sandstone was repointed at almost any time in the last seventy years then it will be either cement or cement/lime - no points for style, but at least one generation was taught that strap pointing was the only way to do it. As it's a reasonably hard wearing sandstone, cement pointing might be something that can be safely left propping up the list of things to fix.

If a stone house has been empty and unheated for any length of time the wallpaper (once vinyl emulsioned, and possibly not that well attached in the first place) can fall off in sheets. As its a blocked flue it could also well be damp building up in the chimney breast. Looks like the original joinery and plaster and possibly staff beads - though which is better than a gypsum skim or plasterboard. I'd definitely prefer the problems of the original fabric to the ones introduced by ill thought out 'renovations' and 'improvements'.

Some households are very steamy and get black mould and that can be in any sort of house. We've gone over to smart heating, so no room ever drops below 14C and the heat follows us around the house during the day. This hasn't used any more gas than we used heating the whole house morning and evening using just TRVs, but we are a lot more comfortable than before with the same old gas boiler apparently thriving on the new regime. This is a stone house and we only suffer from black mould in the breakfast room which is next to the kitchen, but keeping a minimum temperature has improved things there, despite us needing to cook two main meals a day - one for us and one for the worker.