First the Carrot

[Cubist]

Well that's no surprise at all. First, if you're among that happy band that had a Smart Meter installed, you get the carrot; presumably to help you see in the dark. Second, perhaps, an annoying alarm to tell you when little Johny switches on his games console?

I'm not paranoid, I don't think, but I am sensing its all becoming a little 1984..

Money-off energy scheme launches to avoid blackouts

Households with smart meters could save up to £100 on bills if they cut peak-time use over winter.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[RBailey]

We are quite keen to get a smart meter but we've got a three phase supply and meter (of which only 1 phase goes to the board). It doesn't seem to compute with our energy provider so we get alternating messages saying it is a "legal requirement" to have one fitted and then messages saying they can't fit one because it's 3 phase.

I know its not difficult to just remove the tails and put in a single phase smart meter but to get through to somebody technical is impossible..

The "legal requirement" is also a stretch but it is there own wording which winds up SWMBO who is a lawyer.

 

[Zebra]

I don't want a smart meter. Currently I give readings every month, they send me a bill and I pay it. No direct debit, no automation, and I feel more in control that way.
Plus I am very frugal anyway, my energy use is a fraction of the average, and therefore don't feel I need some gadget on the countertop making me feel guilty every time I make a cup of tea.

 

[Feltwell]

We are quite keen to get a smart meter but we've got a three phase supply and meter (of which only 1 phase goes to the board). It doesn't seem to compute with our energy provider so we get alternating messages saying it is a "legal requirement" to have one fitted and then messages saying they can't fit one because it's 3 phase.

I know its not difficult to just remove the tails and put in a single phase smart meter but to get through to somebody technical is impossible..

The "legal requirement" is also a stretch but it is there own wording which winds up SWMBO who is a lawyer.

We to have 3 phase coming into the house, and again only 1 phase goes into the meter. That might need to change though if we ever get an electric car - if you want a fast charger, you'll need 3 phase supply.

We had the incomer replaced by Western Power recently, the old one (1940's!) was having problems with arcing. The engineers who came out to do that said that after years of only single phase supplies going into new housing, they were going back to 3 phase, solely because of fast chargers for cars.

Anyway - we've just had a smart meter put in with no problems - we're with Shell Energy. The first thing it's done to me is highlight that our direct debit each month is way too high! We're heavily in credit and with what they've got it set to that won't reduce. They reckon they go on the average for the postcode when they first set it up - hmm, so our road contains big detached Victorian villas, very small Victorian 2-up 2-down terraces, 1930's semi's, 1980's detached, just about everything!

 

[Lacan07]

Well that's no surprise at all. First, if you're among that happy band that had a Smart Meter installed, you get the carrot; presumably to help you see in the dark. Second, perhaps, an annoying alarm to tell you when little Johny switches on his games console?

I'm not paranoid, I don't think, but I am sensing its all becoming a little 1984..

Money-off energy scheme launches to avoid blackouts

Households with smart meters could save up to £100 on bills if they cut peak-time use over winter.

www.bbc.co.uk

You're not paranoid at all, I think I heard stories about someone having their power cut or reduced for using too much. Not for the average smart meter obviously but is there an automated system that hands entire control over to the energy company? I think that was the problem.

Just one step away from losing power for having the wrong opinions.

 

[Cubist]

You're not paranoid at all, I think I heard stories about someone having their power cut or reduced for using too much. Not for the average smart meter obviously but is there an automated system that hands entire control over to the energy company? I think that was the problem.

Just one step away from losing power for having the wrong opinions.

Don't get me wrong, I can think of, and see, some pluses to energy smart meters; for example in periods when the grid cannot meet the potential demand it would be possible to prioritise service to hospitals, care homes, emergency services et al. I would be in favour of that, but would I trust the bureaucrats and provisioning companies 'not' to favour 'preferred/favoured' customers? Not a chance!

My principle concerns with the tech these days is the steady, relentless encroachment into our day to day decision making and how so much of it is designed to create the most efficient and cost effective route between my income sources and their accounts. In business there's a maxim; to make more money 'Cut out the middle-man'. Nothings changed except that you and I are the 'middle persons'.

 

[Feltwell]

A Smart Meter I will tolerate. Having Alexa etc in the house, no way!

I bought a new laptop that comes with Alexa built-in, it keeps pestering me to turn it on, I could not be less interested if I tried. Same with Siri on my phone.

I've seen a few bad examples on Alexa. One was where a BBC journalist who had been using Alexa found out that Amazon kept exact details of what music they'd been playing and when, going back many months. Here's another:-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-44248122

I did hear a funny one though - someone having an ongoing dispute with their neighbour. They waited until they were out at work, then shouted through their letterbox at their Alexa to set alarms to go off throughout the night.

 

[Cubist]

I did hear a funny one though - someone having an ongoing dispute with their neighbour. They waited until they were out at work, then shouted through their letterbox at their Alexa to set alarms to go off throughout the night.

Hmmmm, nope, not that annoyed with anyone at the moment... but I'll keep it in mind.

Have you read the piece about Amazon Fridges? Seems Big Brother is follicly challenged.

 

[Feltwell]

Have you read the piece about Amazon Fridges? Seems Big Brother is follicly challenged.

Nope, what's that one? Even Google couldn't help.

 

[Cubist]

Nope, what's that one? Even Google couldn't help.

Search on Amazon Smart Fridge. Seems that Alexa will be checking the contents and placing orders for us all.

 

[BlueTed]

I don't want a smart meter. Currently I give readings every month, they send me a bill and I pay it. No direct debit, no automation, and I feel more in control that way.
Plus I am very frugal anyway, my energy use is a fraction of the average, and therefore don't feel I need some gadget on the countertop making me feel guilty every time I make a cup of tea.

I’m exactly the same. Perhaps I’m paranoid (!) but I don’t want energy companies accessing my usage at the press of a computer key…. I’m very happy to submit my readings and I do not need to be told how much energy I’m using because I only use what I have to and no more, so there’s no way to save any more unless I switch to candles!

 

[fernicarry]

The annoying thing for me is that I've always been quite careful to run big loads overnight, washing machine, tumble dryer, dishwasher etc. It doesn't save me any money but the carbon impact of the load is lessened because its a time of generally lower demand which is more likely to be met with low carbon intensity generators. This means I don't have a history of big consumption at peak times that I can offer to switch off. No reward for me because I'm already being sensible. Fairly typical of the society we live in.

That and my smart meter quickly became a dumb meter because the initial roll out was conceived by those with the intelligence of a slug...

Ignoring for a moment the future shortfall in generating capacity, I honestly cannot see how the electricity grid is going to manage if all transport and heating becomes electric. Think of the kWh delivered by hydrocarbons that would have to be displaced by leccy. Not just long distance transmission from remote renewable farms, but the local distribution down every street and lane in the land. You can knock up a new high tension line in a matter of a few years, but it'll take decades to dig up all the streets and replace the cables. Look at how long the broadband revolution has taken, its the same thing, the last mile delivery to your premises. That's why OR hung onto their copper network for as long as they possibly could.

The reason you cannot put more than about 4kW of solar panels on your roof without consulting the network operator is because thats what they think the local network can handle for a sustained period without strengthening. How then will the electricity network provide the 35kW heat input my home requires, sometimes for hours on end? A load thats highly correlated time-wise with everyone else in the street so there's no opportunity to apply diversity. If they're worried about us all generating more than 4kW when the sun comes out then they must be terrified about us all attempting to consume 35kW on cold nights. Just doesn't come close to adding up, its an order of magnitude out.

The only possible solution is get green hydrogen sorted out, put it in the pipes we already have and literally nothing needs to change for the end user (at least for those of us on the gas grid). Gas boilers are already being made that can run on hydrogen. Incidentally town gas that used to be produced from coal (and latterly LPG) at your local gas works was about half hydrogen so its not exactly a new concept. And if we prioritised energy security over climate change (not saying that's the right call), then we could use our coal reserves to ensure gas supply for centuries.

For transportation, dragging hundreds of kilos of batteries around with you everywhere you go is absolute madness. And of course who isn't going to arrive home in their electric car and *immediately* expect its charge to be topped up adding to peak time demand? We should have gone down the route of fuel cells, again hydrogen powered. Or we could just use our cars less, or drive more slowly and efficiently or buy smaller cars...

Decarbonise == take the carbon out of hydrocarbons but leave the hydro.

Maybe I should post in Grump of the Day instead.

 

[Cubist]

Curiously though you've added another string in favour of the Smart Meter argument - they could also switch off,or govern down, the output from our solar/wind/whatever generators.

I'm all in favour of hydrogen but I'm not going to hold my breath waiting to see when/if a sensible and economic 'cracking' approach can be developed.

I'm saddened to say that the pursuit of scarce materials such as lithium to produce batteries is set to run out of control - rather like the meters.

 

[fernicarry]

Curiously though you've added another string in favour of the Smart Meter argument - they could also switch off,or govern down, the output from our solar/wind/whatever generators.

Its the demand management side where the real push for SM's comes from. We know the system won't be able to meet future demand so we'll put a box in everyone's house that can be used to remotely limit demand. We'll (mis-)sell that by saying it'll save you money (err how? I already only run the dishwasher or washing machine when its full, but then I'm in the sensible minority) and relieves you of the endless tedium of reading the meter for yourself. Once everyone has one we can bring in demand based pricing, like Uber/RyanAir does. We're not going to stop you making a cup of tea at 5pm, but it will cost you 10 quid if you do (but we might also stop you if we're having a really bad day). So, yes it'll save you money, by giving you the option to not pay more... Cue tabloid headlines about greedy energy companies fleecing innocent customers (again).

Grid tie inverters can be made to manage themselves by listening to the grid frequency but I don't know if that's done in practice. Only a problem really when there is too much generation which isn't the what we are facing at the moment.

 

[Cubist]

Personally I regard any/all offers of money savings from any agency, particularly government associated/sponsored, in the same light as and offer of £20,000,000 from a Nigerian Prince if I just ....

 

[malcolm]

Someone once said to control the people you first need to control the supply of energy, money and food. The events in 2020 make me suspect that's actually the plan.

Smart meters can be used to control energy supply. The coming central bank digital currencies will control money. Food will get scarce by itself if we all behave like the Netherlands.

In an older house we've got wood burners. I've bought a load of candles.

Can anyone recommend a good kettle that can be used on top of a wood burning stove? It would want a good solid base but the stuff on Amazon looks like rubbish.

 

[Cubist]

Can anyone recommend a good kettle that can be used on top of a wood burning stove? It would want a good solid base but the stuff on Amazon looks like rubbish.

Get to a junk shop or, if you prefer, and antique centre and get yourself a good old fashioned copper kettle. Much more efficient than any steel equivalent and looks better too.

 

[a twig]

You can ignore the 4kW solar if you keep your entire generation and usage local. I’m seriously considering installing solar and batteries, then running a few separate DC circuits throughout the house to run chargers, lighting and low level heating

 

[Feltwell]

Search on Amazon Smart Fridge. Seems that Alexa will be checking the contents and placing orders for us all.

Yes, I do remember that now you say it.

My dishwasher has a feature where it will email you and tell you if it's running low on salt or rinse aid, it needs a cleaning cycle or whatever. It looked so incredibly useful I've never bothered setting it up on the wi-fi.

 

[Cubist]

I had a car called Kit once that could also talk but I lost the keys.

You could set up your dishwasher to mail a friend?