Fireplace insulation/backfill

[TheRoost]

I've just realised that one of our bedroom fireplaces has a loose fill fibre type of insulation that is exposed around the edges of the insert, opening and visible through the holes where the bars would normally attach.

I'm worried that it might be loose fill Asbestos - but I don't know because I've no experience with Asbestos at all. It's a white/grey colour ( I took pics using a flash) and some of the fibres look like they've been torn previously. As one of the pics show, it has a weird 'feather-like' pattern to some the fibres. The stuff at the bottom/back hearth is darker grey and looks like a more even 'blanket' layer.

I would be really grateful for any opinions before I take it further.

 

[TheRoost]

A couple more pics.

 

[plasticpigeon]

The feather may well be a feather!!! I don't know from look as I am no expert, but getting it tested it the best idea, either if there is a sample that can be taken easily or maybe even better, get a company round to do it. If you can get a sample it is around £30.

 

[Flyfisher]

I agree with PP that testing is the only way to be completely sure.

Having said that, if the material is original to the age of the fireplace I'd say it's quite likely to be asbestos and that the precautionary principle would be a good thing to apply.

If it was mine, I would spray the material with water, remove a small amount and place it in a plastic bag. I would then use duct tape or similar to seal off those two holes in the fireplace while awaiting the result of testing.

There's no need to panic though and the key thing is to ensure the material is not disturbed such that the fibres become airborne. Unfortunately, this sort of loose asbestos, while good for insulation purposes, is very friable and easily dispersed into the air. If left alone and contained then it should be safe enough - it's disturbance that increases causes the danger.

Lots of information from the HSE here: https://www.gov.uk/asbestos-in-home and here: http://www.hse.gov.uk/asbestos/essentials/

Other advice here: http://www.asbestoswatchdog.co.uk/home

So, not need to panic but it should be taken seriously.

 

[TheRoost]

Thanks both, I'd thought about testing but was concerned about disturbing it and releasing fibres, spraying with water sounds sensible, hopefully I can get a small amount that's already loose.

Did they use asbestos in fireplaces in late Victorian times? It does appear as though the surround/insert has not been removed before, but I can't be sure. Whoever laid a carpet there in the past went right under the grate with it though, possibly disturbing things, and I remember last summer when we moved in, I vacuumed that bit of carpet underneath, I hope I didn't do any harm.

 

[plasticpigeon]

This is not gospel, but I don't think that asbestos was used much for backfilling of domestic fireplaces. It was usually broken bricks and a cement or lime mortar.

 

[Flyfisher]

I'd agree about fireplaces being back filled with bricks and mortar and anything similar that came to hand, but those photos suggest to me that the fibrous filling is part of the fire/grate assembly rather than the physical fireplace itself and asbestos material would an ideal material (in a performance sense) for insulating the hot metalwork from the surrounding material.

I'm no expert though and am only guessing, but I'd still apply the precautionary principle. I don't know about Victorian domestic fireplace practices but they used asbestos for lagging steam boilers and associated pipe work so it was certainly available to them.

As for vacuuming, domestic models don't have fine enough filters to prevent the tiny fibres being made airborne. Indeed, from what I've read, it's one of the worst things you can do. There are suitable vacuum cleaners available that are 'hazmat' rated and include ultra fine 'HEPA' filters, but you then have to treat the filters as hazardous materials themselves. One of the HSE links I previously posted has more details.

 

[88v8]

Doesn't look as if the fire surround has been out, in which case no disturbance.

Are you planning to use the fireplace? If not, damp the fibres then spray some expanding foam in there to seal it.
If you do plan to use it, the sealant needs to be fireproof, but in that case I would just poke a cement mix in until it's well packed. Leave space for the grate to hook into the holes.

Asbestos is potentially nasty, but harmless so long as it's not disturbed. A whole industry has grown up centred around the removal of material that is perfectly innocuous if left alone.
Meanwhile we can still buy tobacco. It's the capitalist way.

I still have a couple of tubes of that stuff Rawplug used to sell, asbestos fibres for ramming into rough holes. Good product, just hold your breath while using it.

Ivor

 

[TheRoost]

Well, I ordered a test kit and took some samples this weekend. On misting it with water it shrivelled away and went very soggy and dark, it was easy to remove a sample without exposing a dry bit. I don't know if this is characteristic of Asbestos or not, but the samples are on the way to the lab now, so we will see. :|

 

[plasticpigeon]

I bet it will just be dust, fluff and other period gunge.

 

[TheRoost]

Happily the lab report confirmed that it isn't asbestos.

Now I've been able to have a proper look, it is some kind of 1/2" thick insulation blanket (rather than just being dust and muck) and then behind that there is rubble and sand.

The fireplace isn't going to be used but at least we know that we can clean around it, and remove the carpet if we want without causing problems. The grate/bars are missing, but maybe I will find one in a reclamation yard that will fit.

 

[Flyfisher]

Well that's good news (assuming your test sample was from the 'insulation blanket'). It might have cost £30 but it's like all insurance premiums really - they are all hopefully unnecessary.