Fire Doors

[shelli]

We are doing renovation (now 7 months in!) which includes converting 2 loft areas.

brief description: - the house is stone built cottage c1740 with a later barn conversion (1960's we think) all painted white so looks from outside like a long farmhouse but is in 2 distinct parts. The lofts are separated by old farmhouse end wall.

The farm cottage end loft is going to be a bedroom and is accessed via straight tread staircase from a 1st floor former bedroom . We planned to have a self closing fire door (nice one - engineered oak) put on the access room for safety. The loft has velux windows in - one of which throws light down the stairwell into the access room - Building inspector came round today and wants us to build stud wall at top of loft staircase and put self closing door there - effectively cutting it off from the access and boxing in the loft room. We really wanted to keep it open and light - the house was dark and boxed in when we bought it and light is important to us (so is safety!).

The other loft conversion in the barn end of the house is going to be a hobby, play room with boxed off storage area (for christmas decorations!) and is accessed by an open spiral staircase from landing which is open and light and going to be a sort of gallery. the building inspector pretty much said to the builder that he thought it was going to be another bedroom - cheeky swine - it isn't .
We were going to put a self closing fire door on the access through to that whole end of the house (shutting in effectivly 2/3 of the upstairs).

Do our fire door precautions not sound reasonable? we thought they did?

I'm getting a bit miffed about men in suits causin' us unnecessary costs! (see my Tri Iso super 10 thread).

I have heard about friends enforced to put up stud work and fire doors and then when building inspectorate signs the job off down it comes - what a waste of time and money!

Shelli

 

[shelli]

just bumpin!

any thoughts?

Anyone?

Hello!! - ello -ello - llo --lo ---o

Echoes a bit today !

 

[Nemesis]

Just keeping you company - have never done this so no idea...

Building Inspector sounds a bit of a one though... something about working for a local authority gives a sense of importance...

 

[shelli]

Building Inspector sounds a bit of a one though... something about working for a local authority gives a sense of importance...

I think it's because of Lake District being within their jurisdiction - they send all the fanatical ones from other areas here to guard south Cumbria so no-one living here can do anything.

 

[Stephen]

Remember that the Approved Documents (the things he probably refers to as his primary source) are not the Building Regs. If you can demonstrate compliance with the Building Regs even though your work does not appear in or comply with the Approved Docs you have done all you need to do.

If you continue to have a problem pay for an indpendent inspector to come round and advise you in detail. Although you cannot now use that inspector to handle it all for you (because you have gone down the route of using the local Council Dept) he/she could make the argument to the BCO who is causing you hassle and help you get things through.

If someone here knows a good sympathetic BCO elsewhere in the country (preferably not too far from you) you can often employ them anyway. Most Council Buiding Control Depts are for hire outside their areas.

With regard to your specific case the issue of fire escape routes, protection etc can depend on many specific factors within the building. Without seeing photos, plans, etc, etc it is not realistic for people here to comment specifically on your problem. On the face of it your solution sounds reasonabe, but for all we know there may be a good reason for it not to be accetable. Challenge the BCO to discuss why your solution is not acceptable. If the Approved Documents are raised simply point out that the ADs are not the Regs (they are merely suggested methods of complying with the Regs) and ask him to state (in writing preferably) why your solution does not comply with the Regs.

Hope this helps.

 

[shelli]

Thanks Stephen - I will take a copy of building regs to bed this evening - ooh err lucky old building regs eh?!

I wonder if that would work on BCO ?! - :shock: can't believe i just suggested that - bleurgh!

 

[Nemesis]

Him and his Tri-iso...

 

[Penners]

Michelle - would it be possible for the studwork wall that your BCO wants built at the top of the staircase to incorporate some sort of glass feature, in order to borrow light for the stairwell? I think Georgian wired glass is acceptable for fire regs (in certain circumstances, but don't take that as an expert view). Or maybe glass blocks?

I repeat - this is an idea, not any kind of expert advice. I wonder whether Stephen has a view?

 

[Penners]

If you continue to have a problem pay for an indpendent inspector to come round and advise you in detail. Although you cannot now use that inspector to handle it all for you (because you have gone down the route of using the local Council Dept).

Stephen - that's a very interesting comment.

Do I infer correctly that if you employ an independent inspector to advise you on building regs compliance prior to application for consent, you can subsequently use that same inspector for approval inspections (provided you haven't previously asked for local authority inspections)?

 

[Stephen]

Here is a link to the CIC web site with a list of approved inspectors.
http://www.cic.org.uk/services/AIregister.shtml

Here s the link to the Association of Consultant Approved Inspectors
http://www.acai.org.uk/index.asp

The following web site is a particular company's site but the link is to a page that explains the process.
http://www.approvedinspector.com/faqs.asp

I hope between the links above you wll find the information you need.

Stephen

 

[Penners]

Do I sense a diplomatic answer?! Many thanks for that, Stephen.

 

[Horace]

Just doing similar myself. Already had a semi converted loft but much bashed about from victorian original. My architect advised a non LA Building Inspector because they tend to be a bit more understanding - especially in a listed building. I understand that self closing fire doors are no longer required but you will need a mains smoke alarm system fitted in the rooms landings and lower hallways. Bizarrely, still need to be fire doors even though they don't have to be shut!. I understand that the regs were changed because people simply remove the closers anyway once approval given and that several small figures had been lost/badly mangled in the viciously sprung doors!

 

[KN]

We have rising butt hinges on our oak fire doors with seals around them. Our building inspectors said the same comments as Horace. We have a mains powered smoke alarm fitted and we are over 3 floors with the attic staircase inclosed with a fire door at the bottom. The doors in the attic are not fire doors however.

Not sure if this helps.

Karen

 

[lindy]

I just found this website:

http://www.envirograf.com

Has some fire resistant materials that you can use which might be of some help

 

[shelli]

Thanks to everyone - Horace, Stephen, Lindy, Penners, Karen. That was
All helpful stuff.

Will let you know how we get on.

Shelli