Fire and brimstone

[plumbers mate]

That's what I've been calling down on the heads of "regulations" and their corgis. Yes, the gas men.
I have original marble fireplaces with the grates in situ. The grates are integral to the cast iron inset of the fireplace.
I had a gas fire in the front room downstairs. The knob broke and I couldn't get a new one. So I wanted a new gas fire. This would be (like the one in the living room upstairs) stood in front of the fire place which has the grate area hidden, except for the flue bit, with a fireproof sheet.
I realised I will probably need a raised hearth.
The corgi who came round sucked his teeth a bit - "can't put a gas fire in front of that, it's illegal" (It was fitted by a corgi about 15 years ago) He didn't know what I meant by a "grate" until he disconnected and took the fire out (£16.00 cash in hand). "if you want a gas fire, what you'll have to do is get a professional in to take the fireplace out, get rid of the metal grate thing and block up the opening except for the flue and then you can put the marble back if you want" He wondered why I laughed at him. It was that or tell him to s** off.
"Just get central heating and use the fireplace as a feature", he said. "But you can't make toast on a radiator and you need a focal point of warmth in the winter" I replied. He didn't understand.
He was supposed to be giving me a price for installing central heating but he made a cursory view and left obviously thinking I am a nutter so I doubt I'll hear anymore from him (thank goodness).
His mate said I could have floor standing radiators, he said I couldn't (the panel under the window in each room is wood and won't bear the weight of a radiator) The bloke in the shop where I got the details of this corgi said I wouldn't need a raised hearth if I had a fender, he said I did.
Is there *ANYWHERE* with straight forward, easy to understand (ie not complicated building regs or whatever) definitive details of where and how you can have a gas fire fitted?
I need central heating before winter, but I also know that I want a nice glowing, hissing gas fire to warm my toes in front of. Reverting to an open fire is not an option - no storage space in the yard (2 wheelie bins and loads of plants) and it is a fuss that I was pleased to be rid of. Smokeless fuel isn't the same.
If the bl**ming knob hadn't cracked into several bits, I'd be warm and happy. My toes as I type this are cold.
It's all extremely depressing.

 

[Lime]

?

Why don't you just get a new knob?

If you know the make of the fire you should be able to get new parts even if it is quite old.
The major problem often is finding the firm that bought the firm that bought the firm that bought the firm who made the fire.

 

[MdB]

The bloke in the shop where I got the details of this corgi said I wouldn't need a raised hearth if I had a fender, he said I did.
Is there *ANYWHERE* with straight forward, easy to understand (ie not complicated building regs or whatever) definitive details of where and how you can have a gas fire fitted?

OK the building regs are here but you are right it is not easy to read. Section 3.40 - 3.41 deals with hearths and actually states that you don't need a hearth at all if you meet one of two conditions. Otherwise your hearth needs to stop people putting carpets etc too close, a raised hearth is a way to do this but is not the only way. A fender would do the same job.

 

[chuckey]

Tell us more about your gas fire knob. From memory they are usually brown plastic about 2" across the skirt with a smaller ribbed section for you to twiddle. The rubbish bit is the coupling that goes on the shaft. The shaft is about 1/4" diam with a flat on it, the knob bit is like a tube with a section cut away. there is a spring clip that always rusts that clamps around the "tube" part of the knob with a flat section that bears on the flat of the shaft. If it of this ilk then a replacement should be possible either with the exact one or an equivalent. I have not had much success with epoxy resin to glue these sort of bits together, because the spring is always too strong and it breaks the little tube bits off. :evil: Grrr!
Frank

 

[plumbers mate]

Thanks for the advice - unfortunately when I attempted to re-attach the repaired knob (araldite and a jubilee clip) I somehow mangled the vertical bar which did the turning on and off. So I have to have the fire replaced.
Reading the Building Regs stuff emphasises the reason that many people do things they shouldn't - you need to know what it says before you can work out what it says ....
I think what really got me riled was that the gas man (aged perhaps in his 40s) didn't know what a real fireplace looks like... and assumed that the ediface which has been there for 117 years is only useful as a fashionable furnishing item.
I will start phoning many gas men till I get one who seems sensible. Like I've called over a dozen builders, had 5 come round and had one price.... Honestly, despair and depression and stress over something that's not really a big job.
Thanks again for being the safety valve!

 

[Flyfisher]

Tell us more about your gas fire knob. From memory they are usually brown plastic about 2" across the skirt with a smaller ribbed section for you to twiddle. The rubbish bit is the coupling that goes on the shaft. The shaft is about 1/4" diam with a flat on it, the knob bit is like a tube with a section cut away. there is a spring clip that always rusts that clamps around the "tube" part of the knob with a flat section that bears on the flat of the shaft. If it of this ilk then a replacement should be possible either with the exact one or an equivalent. I have not had much success with epoxy resin to glue these sort of bits together, because the spring is always too strong and it breaks the little tube bits off. :evil: Grrr!

I had a similar problem with a shower control knob. Same sort of thing; small diameter shaft with a flat. The knob moulding split around the shaft and eventually broke within about 3 months because the turning force was quite high and the plastic knob was clearly not really strong enough. They sent me another knob under warranty and the same thing happened very quickly. When they sent me another new one, I fitted a solid metal 'collar' over the plastic shaft and this kept the plastic of the knob held very firmly onto the metal shaft of the shower unit and prevented the plastic from deforming and eventually splitting. It's still going strong 10 years later.

As for the gas fire, I would have thought that spares would still be available though. Seems a bit drastic to have to change the entire fire.

 

[DaveBrigg]

I can sympathise - we needed a couple of metres of gas pipe fitting to connect the bottled supply one side of a wall to the cooker in the kitchen. The first lad drilled the hole then left and couldn't be persuaded to return. The second fitter had a look, sucked his teeth and said that if he'd known what we wanted he would never have come. Fortunately I was standing in the doorway at the time, and halfway through his explanation he decided it was easier to have a go. Fifteen minutes later, job done. This was the same man who proudly told me that he had taken all the old, wobbly exposed beams in his house and replaced them with nice new straight ones.
Keep trying until you find a fitter who can understand the regs and is willing to listen to the person who is paying their wages.

 

[Lime]

What does most of the rest of the world (in uk) do when needing gas work?

As I see it CORGI have a monopoly on fitters and none of them are either available or can do work of quality.

About a year ago I had a CORGI fitter in to install a water heater and wall heater.
A monkey would have done a better job.
I had to tell him what to do.

When he argued with me I pointed out the specifications from the enclosed documents with the fittings.
He behaved as if he had never seen or read anything like it!
It was an obvious revelation to him.

I know many plumbers who cannot get a CORGI engineer (ha ha ha ha ha ha, sorry, can't stop laughing at the word beginning with e ) to do any inspection work for them!!!!

 

[Ian Bond]

A 'solution' to the problems of shoddy and dangerous workmanship has made things worse in some cases. There are always a few incompetent, yet highly qualified people in all professions.

And a similar situation is developinging with electrical work now, post Part P.

You really have to be your own expert, know every aspect of the job that needs to be done, and supervise the work closely.

In which case, you might as well do it yourself :twisted:

I suppose you could try complaining to the relevant trade body...
http://www.trustcorgi.com/complain/complaint.htmx

But in my experience, you would be better off finding a handy brick wall, against which to repeatedly bash your head.

 

[plumbers mate]

Bang head against a brick wall? Tried it on lathe and plaster and would advise against it, wall needs repair now.
But I agree that idiots or similar abound.
I removing a boxed-in area under the stairs to remove the old (lead) gas pipes which were disconnected by Northern Gas as it was, about 18 years ago. I found an electric earth wire fastened to said disconnected lead gas pipes. What use is that? I thought it needed to be fastened to copper or some such or at least something connected to, well, to the earth?
Where is that brick wall again? :?

 

[Carol]

It may be worth going to a specialist fireplace supplier, we had a 'cheating' real fire which ran on gas installed quite happily within our Edwardian cast iron surround subject to a flue check and this was under CORGI regs. They stuck the gas pipe inside the original hearth and used the iron basket for the 'pretend coals'.

Have just re-read this and realise it doesn't sound very technical, but the fire did look nice!

 

[Penners]

The corgi who came round sucked his teeth a bit - "can't put a gas fire in front of that, it's illegal".

I discussed your plight with the corgi who lives down our road. He said "Wuff!".

I thought that was rather unsympathetic.

I think you should follow Lime's advice and get a monkey in to do the job. They're higher up the evolutionary ladder.