Feeling its all too much - Question 2

[L1zzy]

2. The house is originally built of rubble stone to half way up then brick above this to the roof .As well as appearing to have been lightly rendered then painted white (YUK) the 'face' is a real hotch potch of concrete repairs and lime mortar et al so I'm discovering little hollow sounding patches and frequently get worried that I will gradually see the entire front fall away bit by bit. Given that my window frames are about to be repaired I will need to patch repair round the ends of the cills and frames - should i do this with Lime mortar ? Is its something for a novice who will only just have been on a lime day be able to tackle??

 

[skier-hughes]

If the rest is lime mortar then I'd have thought lime mortar would be the thing to use.

If the rest is not lime mortar, I'd have thought it best to remove that which isn't if it is not in a great state of repair and lime mortar all.

If it's not and in a good state of repair - conundrum time - I've not come across that problem, so will leave for others to tell you whether to remove all of the mortar or not. Or, if you are going to remove it all at a later stage I'd personally patch with Lime and then remove it all when I'm ready and do it all properly.

As for whether you can do it, well only you know that.

I like doing this sort of stuff, so I have a go, if it's good it stays, if it's not I might have another go, depending on how much I enjoyed it and whether I believe I can make a better job of it, and if I think not, or second time round fails, I get someone in.

There, now where's No3.

Graham

 

[L1zzy]

Thanks Graham - I'm doing this all on my todd and i just need to hear a voice from somewhere saying hey don't give up have a go have bash and if it doesn't work - hey have another go. I think I'm going to use it as my first lime repairs exercise..

Thanks again - I'm probabaly too tired to think sensibly! :roll:

 

[Penners]

Lizzy

I suppose the answer to your conundrum is that it depends how much of the old hotch-potch is still lime mortar, and whether you are really sure it's lime, and not just varying ages of cement.

If the great majority is cement - and assuming that you're not planning a complete strip and re-render - then there's probably not too much point in fussing about doing little new patches in lime. You're really not going to make much difference to the breathability of the building.

However, if you've got mostly old lime, with a few cement patches here and there, it probably is worth patching in lime.

 

[L1zzy]

Hi Penners - my original thinking was to repair in lime - The CO wasn't sure what the surface had been rendered in .In places its almost as though someone has painted two coats of modern exterior emulsion over the top of the brick and stone (mind you this coating is more brittle than plasticky (and fetchingly PINK then WHITE - Yukk erggghhh) but I can definitely see patches of concrete that kind of really rough, rock hard look underneath the paint coatings.

I daren't remove any of the coatings even the hollow small patches I can hear on tapping as I'm a novice - I figure that they may fall off eventually which I kind of feel would be a better solution than me hacking at it - therefore I guess patching with Lime means I'm not making things worse - so I think this has helped me to clarify my muddled thinking a bit .

 

[Penners]

Hmmmm - the plasticky exterior paint isn't going to help breathability much.

 

[skier-hughes]

However, if you've got mostly old lime, with a few cement patches here and there, it probably is worth patching in lime.

However, my thought would be, that although it won't help the building per see, it may well be a very good learning experience for Lizzy, in the "working with Lime".

If she can't master the Lime and it is concrete, then it's only a few pounds lost, put down to experience and then botch (repair) with cement

 

[Gervase]

If the building is rubble stone I'm guessing that the walls are at least 600mm thick, so removing a hollow-sounding patch of blown render isn't going to jeopardise the integrity of such a large lump of stonework.
I understand your nervousness - acquiring responsibility for an old place is sometimes terrifying, but - like kids - buildings are tougher than you think!
You're not going to cause much damage if you try to remove the coatings with a hammer and chisel - just don't go mad with the power tools. If they are a nightmare to remove, then chances are the render is cement. If it comes off easily, take a step back and look long and hard at the stuff that you're removing. if it crumbles fairly easily, and has little white bits in it which fizz if you pour strong vinegar onto it, then you've got lime render. If that's the case, then just patch the worst bits with a similar render and move on to question 3.
If you've got a cement-based render you can either grasp the nettle and remove it (after all, you've already got a hammer and chisel in your hand!) or you can patch what holes and missing bits you've got with lime (not cement, as someone, some day, will have to remove it, and they won't thank you for putting more cement on the building. And if that person is you, then you'll already have a bit of experience working with lime, which is good).
Go for it.

 

[L1zzy]

Sound advice and much appreciated - thanks Gervase - I instinctively feel Lime repairs are whats best useful thought that .......that the thickness of the stone walls (and they are thick means I'm unlikley to cause the wall to fail by removing concrete patches - I just needed someone to say it - times like these one just needs someone to say courage mon brave - so thanks.

L

 

[NT]

> so I'm discovering little hollow sounding patches and frequently get worried that I will gradually see the entire front fall away bit by bit.

thats what happens with render, its nothing to worry about.


> Given that my window frames are about to be repaired I will need to patch repair round the ends of the cills and frames - should i do this with Lime mortar ?

definitely


> Is its something for a novice who will only just have been on a lime day be able to tackle??

easy! It really is. You just trowel it on and wipe it level with a whatnot - my whatsitcalled word forgetting is playing up again. Then Brush downwards gently with a big paintbrush dipped in water, this removes all the lines left by the steel float and smooths the surface. Job done. Just remember to work top down with the water


Re the hollow bits, you can knock them off and repatch or you can leave it until it falls off then patch, your choice.


NT