fallen tree

[charlie-ia]

our big tree fell down in that wind. a big pine. it was protected and we are expected to replace it with something similar (we've not got into the details of this yet)

the tree fell onto the power cables, and the electricity board hacked off the offending part (the top 15ft or so). the lad with the chainsaw had a good jump up and down on the top of the tree when he'd finished, and it seems fairly stable. it doesnt look like its going to come crashing down, and if it does it wont do any damage (assuming im not up it at the time:lol: )
It doesent move in the wind, or when you climb it, and for now im happy to just leave it.

its a beautiful old tree, and has formed a wonderful secret grotto underneath, its currently leaning at 30ish degrees and leaning on a ceadar and a weeping cherry.
it currently seems to be growing. i dont know if it will make it through the summer, but i hope so. i re burried as many roots as i could, trimmed any dangerous eyelevel branches, covered the rootball with a tarpaulin, and it gets watered.

we really would like to save the tree, perhaps in the long term it could be made properly safe with pitprops or such like (we have no idea of cost but i know it can be done)

the worry is what would it do to the resale value of the house, or any implications if we were to rent the house out.

its a big garden, but the tree blocks the start of the main path. at the moment we have a temporary bridge over the base of its trunk, so in my opinion it will look lovely, but to others it probably looks dangerous or unsightly. even if we could get some kind of safety assurance.

is it best to just remove it now, and plant the replacement?

 

[Pford75]

Firstly, I'd recommend a proper survey by a trained arboriculturlist, who should be able to answer you immediate questions.

I would think that renting the property out in this state might leave you with a fairly severe liability if anything were to happen. If the tree surgeon says it's ok...then at least you can demonstrate that you took reasonable steps to assess safety.

Having lost a very large tree ourselves recently, I sympathise....but the movement will almost certainly have disrupted/damaged the root system and if we experience a dry Summer, you could have problems.

Personally, I would remove the tree...perhaps asking for it to be cut in such a way that you can re-use a section as a garden table or similar.

 

[MdB]

...but the movement will almost certainly have disrupted/damaged the root system and if we experience a dry Summer, you could have problems.

30 degrees certainly sounds a lot and I'm not a tree expert but I do remember watching the Kew Gardens program where they stated that a lot of the trees that had root movement during "The Great Storm" actually benefited from it and grew better after being disturbed. They actually went around some of their other trees and deliberately disturbed their roots to help them afterwards. All might not be lost but as I said 30 degrees does sound a lot. Get an expert in.

 

[charlie-ia]

caring for the tree, im quite happy with. im "in the trade" myself, Im worried what other folks would think about having such a thing more or less right outside the house if we sell up/ rent it out.(good job it fell the direction it did).

yes 30 deg. is a lot. we used to wish we could climb it, but all the lower branches had been removed. now we can just walk up it!

its resting on a few other trees. if they die, it may come down anyway, so we're wating to see who lives before paying for a surgeon. (and im still looking for a sympathetic expert)

and the bloomin thing has squished all my paeonies!!!

 

[worms]

I've had a couple of reputable tree surgeons tell me that a big pine I have is quite safe, even though it doesn't look it from certain angles. (It is nothing like the 30 degrees you describe!) However, I couldn't convince them to give me anything in writing to say that they think it is safe! Unfortunately, I suspect this is one of these situations where if you have to ask, the answer is always a "no" and the only certifiably safe tree is one that has been converted into a log-pile!

 

[chuckey]

I have seen some big trees come down (five blew down in the firms carpark one night, destroyed the only 4 cars in a car park of 60 bays), So my question is whats happening to the root system?. If the tree has moved independently of the ground by 30 degrees either its torn of its roots on one side or its lifted a chunk of ground? Has one side subsided into some unknown well or similar?
In Feb 1988 our 50' high pine started to crack the pavement, so we had it topped by about 10' and the thing uprighted itself and the cracks have now gone!
Frank

 

[charlie-ia]

Half its roots are torn and sticking up. goodness knows what angle the other roots are folded back at. the tree showed no sign of movement for a month (after having its top lopped) so i filled the hole with 1/4tonne of topsoil. the protruding roots are covered with a tarpauline while its not raining. thats mostly for my benefit i think. big plaster.

its definately sprouting though, and has "flowered". we thought about trying to right it, but didnt like the idea of it blowing down again.

would you worry if a fallen tree like this was in the garden of a property you were viewing?

 

[skier-hughes]

would you worry if a fallen tree like this was in the garden of a property you were viewing?

If I saw it I wouldn't buy until it had been removed properly and I'd seen the receipt..

 

[Mark]

It would put me off. I wouldnt understand why it had been left like that. If its close to the house I would wonder if there might be problems after it was removed (heave?)

 

[charlie-ia]

where the water that used to go up the tree goes into the foundations?
what can we do to prevent this? the ground is gently sloping, and free draining. is it likely to be trouble?

 

[Mark]

No idea. But it would flag up as a possible issue to me. And tbh if I was buying I wouldnt take the vendors word for it that the area was free draining and problems are unlikely.

I just think that it would be issue to me. Others might not care less.

 

[Anna]

It sounds like a beautiful old tree and I'd hate to hear if you chose to remove it. It really seems likely that it will survive quite fine. We have 3 huge trees in our garden that have fallen in high winds but are still here, and in retrospect I miss the one that we did remove, as I'm sure we'd still be getting apples from it if we'd left it. As long as there's a reasonable amount of roots under the soil, most trees seem to barely notice what angle they're standing/sitting at.

We bought our house with its biggest fallen tree, a huge walnut. We thought it a great garden feature! We can, & do, walk up the trunks of it and a since-fallen apple tree to sit & admire the view (avoiding the rabbit poo on the apple tree as they seem to enjoy the same). Plus now it's also easier to get at the apples.

It sounds like your tree's a bit awkward though, blocking the start of the path. I'd be tempted to either re-route the path, or turn your temporary bridge into something attractive and more permanent.

I wouldn't personally worry about affecting the value of the house, given how many folk here don't seem to worry about buying houses with wobbly walls, leaking roofs, strange stains etc!

And as for safety, don't get me started.... I'll just say that if you, like us, have a pond, or permanently open gate to a road, or steep staircase, or ancient wiring, anything else that might get you sued, then a fallen tree is truly the last thing to worry about. Standing trees can fall over; this tree has already done the worst it can! Falling branches from perfectly upright trees are more of a nuisance here.

Oh and yes I do believe trees help reduce the water table in our garden, and perhaps under our house. Our neighbours get standing water every year, and we don't.

And finally, if you've read this far!, you must check out The Tree That Sat Down (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tree-That-Sat-Down-Lions/dp/0006709931), a brilliant book from my childhood that I thought of as soon as I laid eyes on the walnut tree in what is now our garden. (I admit we bought the house only cos we loved the garden.)

 

[chuckey]

If the roots are severely broken on the one side, the buckled roots will not hold the tree up. I would investigate using a tree puller and pulling the tree nearer upright. Imagine as the tree was, you have got 4 tons of wood standing on the trunk, but its disposed centrally and there is a web of roots to hold the lot steady when the wind blows the trunk about. Now you have got 3 tons of unbalanced wood with broken roots on the side that would support the tree when the wind blows. You can't do much about the roots, but trying to mimimise the 3 tons would be a positive step. I am very pessimistic about the life of this tree, sniff, sniff .
Frank

 

[alice]

It sounds like a goner to me, too. A trees roots cover the same area as the canopy, and it sounds like you lost a lot of root. If it didnt' die off altogether, I wouldn't be surprised at all if the half of the tree that is opposite of the direction of the lean didn't die off and you end up with half a tree. If the tap root is broken than it's all a moot point.

alice

 

[Anna]

There might be arguments for removing the tree, but assuming that it won't survive surely isn't enough!

I'm no tree expert, so I don't know for sure with yours, but I've learned from experience here that when the remaining roots can get enough water (which really usefully helps dry/drain the soil), then our trees have been fine. Okay it probably won't stand unaided, but as you say, it's beautiful, has a "wonderful secret grotto", and seems to be growing. The hardest test for it, I think, will be to see if it can survive a dry summer.

I won't have time today, but I'll try to take & post some photos tomorrow of our "sitting down" trees. One is a very big old apple tree, still producing tons of apples about 3 years after someone claiming to be a tree surgeon wrote it off, offering to chainsaw it & "helpfully" remove all the wood. It too has been hacked by the electricity company's contractors for being too close to overhead lines. Another is a huge walnut that fell many many years back, was righted, fell again at least 10 years ago, and is one of my favourite trees in the garden. It too produces plenty of fruit, but the squirrels always get all the nuts. The 3rd, a tall thin eucalyptus, fell last November, and on advice we have pollarded it and propped it back up. The leaves haven't even fallen off, so I'm hopeful it too will survive.

 

[charlie-ia]

looks like the cedar it's partially leaning on has died, but the new shoots on the pine look ok. the weeping cherry got flattened, but seems to be thriving, unless the blossom was a swansong. its pretty dark under there.

fallen tree or not, isnt this gentle rain lovely!