I have come to the conclusion that Farrow and Ball external woodword paint is utter rubbish. On several examples over the years I have used or seen it used on exterior woodwork the results after only 12 months are quite appalling and after 18 months shocking. It seems to dry and crack and flake very quickly. I think it is worse since being waterbased. You could blame it on the application but there's too many cases as far as I am concerned. A real shame as they have great colours. In my search for alternatives I have had some copied to Dulux but with some colours the match is poor. Can anyone recommend a good quality long lasting exterior paint brand with a nice selection of colours? Thanks.
- Thread starter Alex F
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worms
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88v8
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Agree about F&B. Good indoors, rubbish outside.
My choice, Sikkens AZ Rubbol.
If you buy from a decent decorators' merchant, they will colour it for you.
Nothing to do with the particularities of brands, but in south-facing situations, light colours will be more durable than dark as they heat up less. The sun is a great destroyer.
Ivor
My choice, Sikkens AZ Rubbol.
If you buy from a decent decorators' merchant, they will colour it for you.
Nothing to do with the particularities of brands, but in south-facing situations, light colours will be more durable than dark as they heat up less. The sun is a great destroyer.
Ivor
JoceAndChris
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I've had exterior FnB fail but only when it's gone over a kind of wood preserving treatment. I've also seen very disappointing cracking and peeling in Dulux trade within 2 years where the wood gets the full sunshine.
I'm sure the fans of Holkams are very right,but where I live it's as if I'm in a wood. Stuff is dropping down and blowing over all the time - leaves, beech nuts, blossom, insects, thistle fluffs, bird poo. I just couldn't cope with the slow drying time of a linseed oil paint and having all that stuff embedded.
At some point will put up some pics of really satisfactory FnB exterior wood paint that's now 4 years old and looking great. But, this was on naked untreated wood that had 2 coats of Dulux exterior primer before 3 coats of FnB, with cleanings in between each coat.. I certainly won't be deserting them, no-one else has the range of colours, especially not Holkams.
I'm sure the fans of Holkams are very right,but where I live it's as if I'm in a wood. Stuff is dropping down and blowing over all the time - leaves, beech nuts, blossom, insects, thistle fluffs, bird poo. I just couldn't cope with the slow drying time of a linseed oil paint and having all that stuff embedded.
At some point will put up some pics of really satisfactory FnB exterior wood paint that's now 4 years old and looking great. But, this was on naked untreated wood that had 2 coats of Dulux exterior primer before 3 coats of FnB, with cleanings in between each coat.. I certainly won't be deserting them, no-one else has the range of colours, especially not Holkams.
tobydog
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Interesting comments about F&B exterior paint. We are fans of their interior paints and therefore used their water based exterior eggshell on the window frames and doors of our new extension (French Grey goes really well with untreated oak cladding by the way). They were done by the painting / decorating subcontractor on the build in June 2010 and so far they still look as though he did them yesterday. What he did was to use very very thin and fine primer and top coats to the extent that you can see the full colour but all the great window details still show through (they weren't cheap!). You wouldn't know it was there just by touch. The primer was also F&B.
I would certainly be interested in trying the other paints mentioned above and on previous threads now that I know more from PPUK, however, on personal experience alone I am more than happy with the F&B exterior eggshell. Preparation and application are everything.
Alex F - what base were you actually applying the paint to and how did you apply it?
I would certainly be interested in trying the other paints mentioned above and on previous threads now that I know more from PPUK, however, on personal experience alone I am more than happy with the F&B exterior eggshell. Preparation and application are everything.
Alex F - what base were you actually applying the paint to and how did you apply it?
tobydog said:
Almost all examples I am thinking of were on timber that was already painted. I am involved with a Georgian building which was decorated by supposedly professional decorators (I say supposedly as I cannot know for certain that they are professional in every aspect of their work). It was a job which cost about £14,000. Farrow and Ball exterior eggshell was selected. The results two years on a very poor - significant cracking in very many areas and really it must be redone to prevent further deterioration. Another example I did myself a few years ago which was on a prepainted surfaces. Again the results very poor after two years. I subsequently did the same procedure using Sandolin paint in same location. Three years on the result are satisfactory. Clearly with F&B more preparation is required and if you are painting on a less than perfect surface the risk of failure is far greater. The question is what lengths do you go and reliability do you accept for using F&B. This is coming from someone who have used them for over 15 years and will continue to buy only on internal surfaces but exterior wood.
tobydog
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I'm no painter and decorator but I guess that if the F&B paint cracked and peeled so readily, and in such a short period of time, then I would say it was put on too thick and without proper base preparation. You said it was better when you did it with Sadolin but I reckon it's more likely that you did a better job rather than the Sadolin being a better paint.
Water based paints on any surface are always going to have a bonding issue compared with oil based equivalents. From what I can tell, even Holkham linseed oil paints require you to take the surface back to bare wood so it soaks in. We used water based eggshell from Fired Earth on our kitchen doors, however, the primer already on there required us to use oil based paint. The kitchen man only told us this once we had done it. Thankfully we have now used a very good dead flat non-yellowing varnish that seems to have sealed the surface from stains and finger nails.
Water based paints on any surface are always going to have a bonding issue compared with oil based equivalents. From what I can tell, even Holkham linseed oil paints require you to take the surface back to bare wood so it soaks in. We used water based eggshell from Fired Earth on our kitchen doors, however, the primer already on there required us to use oil based paint. The kitchen man only told us this once we had done it. Thankfully we have now used a very good dead flat non-yellowing varnish that seems to have sealed the surface from stains and finger nails.
tobydog
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The odd thing is that our front door was painted in oil based gloss. We gave it a light sanding and put on two coats of F&B eggshell. It faces south and gets the full sun and rain beating on it but three years on it's still sound. We added to it recently with a colour change and, when sanding, it all stayed intact.
By the way, I don't work for F&B!
By the way, I don't work for F&B!
Our builders say they only ever use Proflian for exterior woodwork now, I think it's German.
I've never heard if it before and they haven't painted my windows yet so I can't comment on the finish or how it lasts but they swear by it.
Not sure how extensive the colour range is but you can have it mixed to match any colour.
Apparently it's success is all to do with the primer, they are planning multiple coats before the paint, in fact they have sourced 4x the amount of primer to paint.
Looking at the tins the paint is called Impra Profilan Opac and primer Impra Profilan Secur.
I've never heard if it before and they haven't painted my windows yet so I can't comment on the finish or how it lasts but they swear by it.
Not sure how extensive the colour range is but you can have it mixed to match any colour.
Apparently it's success is all to do with the primer, they are planning multiple coats before the paint, in fact they have sourced 4x the amount of primer to paint.
Looking at the tins the paint is called Impra Profilan Opac and primer Impra Profilan Secur.
JoceAndChris
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Interesting stuff. Paint must have a good key, any paint must. Dust and dirt under and the paint will crack. I sand, vacuum, and white spirit and rinse and dry before painting - I've always got my duster handy. FnB needs constant thinning and stirring because it's pigments are so thick - that's what gives the depth, richness, and unpinnable downess of colour. I completely agree with Toby's painters on the approach. I painted my exterior doors dark Carriage Green early in the summer - painting over old cracked white oil based trade paint. It looks brand new still.
Water based FnB solidifies to look very like oil based after a 6 month process of hardening.
I don't work for FnB either, but I think their paints and papers (actually, especially the wallpaper) is second to none.
I know that in London that Dulux trade paint job on all the windows failed because the contractors didn't sand and clean thoroughly, even though they charged our Management Committee around £8000. (2 6-storey buildings)
Water based FnB solidifies to look very like oil based after a 6 month process of hardening.
I don't work for FnB either, but I think their paints and papers (actually, especially the wallpaper) is second to none.
I know that in London that Dulux trade paint job on all the windows failed because the contractors didn't sand and clean thoroughly, even though they charged our Management Committee around £8000. (2 6-storey buildings)
I've used this stuff and it's earlier oil based counterpart, carefully prepped on bare and previously painted softwoods.
It has worked well so far. There has been a bit of yellowing on some interior window cills where things placed on top of it have reacted with it, but outside it's looking good 3 years in. The only flaking has been over resin based filler that was spread very thinly over large surfaces and its the filler that has given out not the paint on it.
I have a (perhaps ill founded) faith that wood paints designed for Scandinavian winters and summers on their wooden houses are likely to be durable in our milder climate.
http://www.paint-paper.co.uk/Paint/Alcro/Outdoor-Painting/Windows/Alcro-BestA-FA-nsterfA-rg-TrA-1-litre/prod_15.html
I don't see any logic in skimping on the material or not taking trouble to source the best available when the real cost of painting is the labour not the paint.
It has worked well so far. There has been a bit of yellowing on some interior window cills where things placed on top of it have reacted with it, but outside it's looking good 3 years in. The only flaking has been over resin based filler that was spread very thinly over large surfaces and its the filler that has given out not the paint on it.
I have a (perhaps ill founded) faith that wood paints designed for Scandinavian winters and summers on their wooden houses are likely to be durable in our milder climate.
http://www.paint-paper.co.uk/Paint/Alcro/Outdoor-Painting/Windows/Alcro-BestA-FA-nsterfA-rg-TrA-1-litre/prod_15.html
I don't see any logic in skimping on the material or not taking trouble to source the best available when the real cost of painting is the labour not the paint.
Another positive data point for F&B external - we applied oil eggshell on our sash windows and it's only now starting to slightly crack in places after 8 years. This was applied onto bare stripped (100 year old) wood, with dulux microporous preservative wash then primer. My vote is for good preparation - it took us over 100 hours per window to refurbish, wheras the 'professional decorators' chucked trade gloss onto next doors' identical windows in 20 minutes!
But will hesitate to repaint with F&B water based - in my experience all their (all?) water based paints are far worse than the older oil based ones.
Keen to hear about alternatives
PS Yes, I would have used linseed paint on the bare wood if i'd known about it back then!
But will hesitate to repaint with F&B water based - in my experience all their (all?) water based paints are far worse than the older oil based ones.
Keen to hear about alternatives
PS Yes, I would have used linseed paint on the bare wood if i'd known about it back then!
Zebra
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Another vote for Holkhams.