External door stone slab issue

[discobarry]

Morning all, at our home we have a stone slab which goes from outside the front room external door to the inside. The only issue we have with this as obviously moisture comes through the stone into the house. For now it is fine but we worry the moisture may eventually damage the wooden door and when we re lime plaster the walls we will then decide on flooring which we struggle with as we don't know what to do near the door area. Any tips would be appreciated and your experiences would be appreciated too.

Thanks, Aaron

 

[paulb33]

I'm guessing that all the time there's draughts under the door and the whole area breathes the 'old fashioned way', it'll be ok. Equally, a bit of damp around the door of an old cottage is probably 'the old fashioned way'. The slab probably dried quickly before your threshold strip was installed.

Once you start sealing stuff in, laying tiles, draught excluders, fitting softwood door frames (making it nice and toasty in a modern way) etc that slab will cause problems. The further it gets from 'original', the more you'll need to seal (ahem, 'tank'….) that point of water ingress.

You might want to throw out those rubber entry mats. They'll be exacerbating your problem at the moment.

(Two penneth from a self-acknowledged 'novice' at this stuff….)

 

[discobarry]

Thanks for the reply, the floor is solid with no real base. We suspect it is stone flagstones throughout the room which was asphalted over by the 80's. It doesn't cause any problems as of it as we never cover it so it always breathes. At some point it would be nice to have some kind of flooring which is breathable which is why I'm asking about what i could do near the door area. The floor mats fantastic where they are as we live high up and exposed to the rain so it makes coming inside in wellies easier! We couldn't do without.

Should we find a breathable flooring material? Or we maybe could floor up to it and put some kind of grate there? The floor slopes out of the home so it isn't level at all.

 

[paulb33]

Thanks for the reply, the floor is solid with no real base. We suspect it is stone flagstones throughout the room which was asphalted over by the 80's. It doesn't cause any problems as of it as we never cover it so it always breathes. At some point it would be nice to have some kind of flooring which is breathable which is why I'm asking about what i could do near the door area. The floor mats fantastic where they are as we live high up and exposed to the rain so it makes coming inside in wellies easier! We couldn't do without.

Should we find a breathable flooring material? Or we maybe could floor up to it and put some kind of grate there? The floor slopes out of the home so it isn't level at all.

I'm not sure alsphalt can breathe. Presumably it was laid to seal the floor - a kind of tanking. We're seeing water escaping the asphalt and tracking under the door in that threshold stone flag. The threshold bar and rubber interior floor mat slows evaporation. A coir mat or a metal grille may be preferable than the rubber backed mat.

If you're keeping the asphalt, then any kind of floor can be used over it. Its not breathing anyway. The stone threshold flag is the only area where water can escape. It will stay damp there. Use a metal grill or coir mat at the threshold. Be prepared for water to penetrate the door surround. The lime plaster will help.

If its exposed stone floor on to earth, then the asphalt or any kind of non-breathable flooring will trap the damp, which will look to escape up the edges via walls and skirting boards. Of course, you could use quarry tiles on to the stone and they would breathe together with the lime plaster walls. But, then you'd have to remove the asphalt. In which case, you might just as well expose the lovely flagstones.

If its the isolated stone cottage I have in my mindsye, I'd be removing the asphalt, the threshold strip, the rubber rug and creating a few draughts, scattering some woollen rugs, kicking off my boots at the door step and installing a nice warm aga to keep everything breathing, toasty and dry. Idealistic, I know.

 

[discobarry]

The moisture comes in from outside the door, it travels through the stone flag which is under the door. We are going to look at getting the asphalt up however our floor is obviously very dry and this causes no issues in the kitchen which is lower down than the living room yet again. So a good point there thank you, we will go for some kind of wooden flooring which has always been our preference and we could then leave the door area be I suppose. I just thought there could of been some clever way of preventing the moisture penetrating the stone and traveling into the house.

 

[paulb33]

The moisture comes in from outside the door, it travels through the stone flag which is under the door. We are going to look at getting the asphalt up however our floor is obviously very dry and this causes no issues in the kitchen which is lower down than the living room yet again. So a good point there thank you, we will go for some kind of wooden flooring which has always been our preference and we could then leave the door area be I suppose. I just thought there could of been some clever way of preventing the moisture penetrating the stone and traveling into the house.

There's lots of clever ways to prevent moisture that penetrates the exterior stone and travels into the house. A coating of modern sealant and mastic at the threshold perhaps. Or, just complete the asphalting. You can then run the wooden floor to the door. The wooden floor will sit quite happily over this, all the time the underlying tanking remains water-tight. Do you have double glazed windows?

The moisture by the door is alo due to condensation in this cold spot, I assume.

 

[discobarry]

Yeah very good which is also why we have problems in our bedroom with bridging cold

 

[Keith Bowman]

The bedroom problem is the easiest to solve - get an electric overblanket (with dual controls!). Much more cost effective to heat the bed than the whole room.
If it were my house, I should be wondering about moving the stone threshold slab completely outside or completely inside the door, then setting up the door with an effective water bar. I might add that that such a 'wondering' process could take me a number of months, or more likely years Don't rush at it.
Other people might have better ideas, especially about the probable asphalt covering the flagstones....

 

[discobarry]

We have tried dehumidifier in bedroom but made little differance, sleeping with the window open usually works but the windows get the full brunt of any wind and rain we have and at 260m up on a sw facing hill some what limits us.

 

[paulb33]

I'll be frank: these lovely old cottages are designed to have draughts and condensation.

See www.underthethatch.co.uk for some inspiring renovations of lovely old stone cottages...

Good luck.

Paul

 

[Lime]

I think there is a fault in the way the threshold water seal and bar are installed on the stone flag that seals the bottom of the door.
The weather bar that runs between the door jambs is in the wrong place.
It is fitted directly onto the bottom of the door jambs that touch or face the exterior of the door.
(in the link the part I refer to is marked by an arrow labelled door jamb.)
http://www.historichomeinminiature.com/DoorsIIpict09.jpg

The weather bar should be installed slightly further back into the house (about 1cm) from where it is now.

At present any rain that penetrates the sides of the door (between the door and jamb) will run down the inside of the jamb and pool at the bottom.
The water cannot escape to the outside because the weather bar is in the way. It only has one way to go, which is inside the house.
Hence the reason the water marks are greatest near the door jambs.

This adjustment will probably require a small rebate to be made in the bottom of the door to accommodate the weather bar.

 

[discobarry]

I'll ask the joiners about that, could that be like that as the house is listed and the CO put a lot of restrictions on what we could or couldn't do?

Thanks for the replies as well.

 

[MatthewC]

I'll ask the joiners about that, could that be like that as the house is listed and the CO put a lot of restrictions on what we could or couldn't do?

Surely not - I had troubles with my CO being picky and into unnecessary detail but that would have been beyond the pale even for them!

 

[discobarry]

Ok I'll ask the joiners about it. What is been said makes sense as it happens in both corners off the door. I have a bit of pointing to do outside the door, maybe I could use mastic as it is right in the corners, see below

 

[paulb33]

I suspect its going to be stay wet all around that threshold stone. You might want to remove some of the mortar around the stone. Letting it breathe more to aid drying.

You could cut the stone where it enters the house. Separating internal and external. Perhaps drop the outside step too.

Looking at your photos, the rubble walls will confound some of this.. Water vapour is necessarily circulating through your house. Good that you used lime plaster.

I recently stayed at Gryff Rhys Jones' 17th century stone farm-house in Pembrokeshire. Subject of BBC restoration programme. Anyway, he laid a lovely oak floor on a similar stone slab base. Within months he had pulled it all up, because it warped, shifted etc with the moisture and movement. He now has coir carpets direct to the floor, which look lovely. Rustic, but cheap and breathable. Coir doesn't do well in moisture, so perhaps its not a very long term solution. looks nice though.

See photos in the attached link.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.447100328646485.98447.249081995114987&type=3&l=d8c9bf1850