Nemesis
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http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/server/show/ConWebDoc.14854
- Thread starter Nemesis
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I'm probably alone in this thought, but I really don't believe that EH should be punting their own 'branded' fireplaces for profit. I feel the same about paints, wallpapers and any other such products.
If they are really concerned with ensuring designs appropriate to certain periods and keeping the crafts alive, they would do better to promote (without profit) smaller independant craftspeople. Government bodies are not there to become private enterprise (and I have plenty of first hand consulting experience of what happens when they try).
Where does it stop? An EH 'megastore' on some out of town retail park?
If they are really concerned with ensuring designs appropriate to certain periods and keeping the crafts alive, they would do better to promote (without profit) smaller independant craftspeople. Government bodies are not there to become private enterprise (and I have plenty of first hand consulting experience of what happens when they try).
Where does it stop? An EH 'megastore' on some out of town retail park?
That's why, apparently, and it's a fair enough reason. A bit like the licences for selling Disney-themed stuff, except that in this case the money goes to a Good and Noble Cause.
I do so agree with your point, Pford, about small specialist firms that, with the marketing power of EH behind them, could really prosper under such a scheme. But EH functions in the 'real world' and can't indulge in that sort of do-gooding, can it?
Nemesis
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EH isn't totally a government funded body. It is a non-departmental public body (The Historic Buildings and Monuments Commission for England). It is also a membership organisation. It receives 75% of its funding from the taxpayer, it has to generate the rest.
http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/server/show/nav.1684#whoareEH
It has a number of functions, and it needs to bring in income. This seems to me to be a reasonable way of doing that. It also has shopping online and shops at at various of its properties, which it needs funds to appropriately care for, tearooms, and holiday lets. It publishes and sells books.
http://www.english-heritageshop.org.uk/
http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/server/show/nav.1629
It rents out properties for events.
http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/server/show/nav.18726
EH does, of course, promote and help develop initiatives regarding keeping craft skills alive.
http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/server/show/nav.10663
http://www.nhtg.org.uk/
http://www.helm.org.uk/server/show/ConWebDoc.14108
The firm which is making the fireplaces, by the way, is one which I think employs craftspeople.
EH even sells Christmas cards, using images from the image library:
[Open Image] [Hosted by PhotoGalaxy.com]
(pic c John Gay)
http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/server/show/nav.1684#whoareEH
It has a number of functions, and it needs to bring in income. This seems to me to be a reasonable way of doing that. It also has shopping online and shops at at various of its properties, which it needs funds to appropriately care for, tearooms, and holiday lets. It publishes and sells books.
http://www.english-heritageshop.org.uk/
http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/server/show/nav.1629
It rents out properties for events.
http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/server/show/nav.18726
EH does, of course, promote and help develop initiatives regarding keeping craft skills alive.
http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/server/show/nav.10663
http://www.nhtg.org.uk/
http://www.helm.org.uk/server/show/ConWebDoc.14108
The firm which is making the fireplaces, by the way, is one which I think employs craftspeople.
EH even sells Christmas cards, using images from the image library:
[Open Image] [Hosted by PhotoGalaxy.com]
(pic c John Gay)
Jon Maine
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It also knocked down Saville Row, refused to visit me and give me advice on my wall/fireplace painting when asked but thankfully left me alone to do a sympathetic repair.
I suppose that the fireplace thing is no different than if it were stocked by Harrods or F&M, just another up market name.
However it would slightly worry me that anyone buying one may think that as it had been purchased from EH it automatically came attached with LBC to put it anywhere you like.
I suppose that the fireplace thing is no different than if it were stocked by Harrods or F&M, just another up market name.
However it would slightly worry me that anyone buying one may think that as it had been purchased from EH it automatically came attached with LBC to put it anywhere you like.
I think that perhaps I didn't articulate my objection very well.
I believe that EH needs to either operate as a commercially funded entity or as a public-funded body. My experience is that public bodies can quickly lose sight of their original purpose and have a tendancy to 'grow like Topsy'. There is a very good book by Geoffrey Moore - "Living on the Fault Line" which examines the issue of 'Core' vs 'Context'. The thrust being that 'core' activities generate competitive advantage or differentiate and should be where a effort and resources are focused. Too many public bodies get this balance badly wrong.....in essence they have a very tiny 'core' and lots of 'context'. When the focus ought to be more like 80:20.
If EH wants to punt fireplaces around, advertise paints, sell sandwiches or any of these other things....then that's fine, but I don't see why as taxpayers we should be paying for it. And yes, I do understand that these activities are supposed to reduce the tax burden....but I know enough about public sector accounting to also realise that this is not always the case. If these activities are so critical to EH, they could easily run a separate commercial body with a separate P&L if they were really interested in demonstrating the value of these activities.
I believe that EH needs to either operate as a commercially funded entity or as a public-funded body. My experience is that public bodies can quickly lose sight of their original purpose and have a tendancy to 'grow like Topsy'. There is a very good book by Geoffrey Moore - "Living on the Fault Line" which examines the issue of 'Core' vs 'Context'. The thrust being that 'core' activities generate competitive advantage or differentiate and should be where a effort and resources are focused. Too many public bodies get this balance badly wrong.....in essence they have a very tiny 'core' and lots of 'context'. When the focus ought to be more like 80:20.
If EH wants to punt fireplaces around, advertise paints, sell sandwiches or any of these other things....then that's fine, but I don't see why as taxpayers we should be paying for it. And yes, I do understand that these activities are supposed to reduce the tax burden....but I know enough about public sector accounting to also realise that this is not always the case. If these activities are so critical to EH, they could easily run a separate commercial body with a separate P&L if they were really interested in demonstrating the value of these activities.
Nemesis
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Well, here's Dr Thurley's e-mail:
simon dot thurley at english-heritage dot org dot uk
No doubt he'll be delighted to hear your views.
Not sure the taxpayer is paying a penny towards the fireplaces, but there you go. I simply thought some forum members might be interested - better than buying ones of dubious provenance. They are purchased from the manufacturer, not EH.
Jon - EH didn't knock down Savile Row - the DCMS was responsible for the early termination of the lease, it was a financial decision, and the building wasn't really listable.
http://www.riskybuildings.org.uk/docs/37fortress/index.html
It was the local authority (City of Westminster) which allowed it to be demolished, despite being in a conservation area. That's the planning authority.
No idea why your regional people wouldn't come out and look, but did you apply for consent? That's when EH gets involved -its remit is actually quite limited and they are often very overstretched.
simon dot thurley at english-heritage dot org dot uk
No doubt he'll be delighted to hear your views.
Not sure the taxpayer is paying a penny towards the fireplaces, but there you go. I simply thought some forum members might be interested - better than buying ones of dubious provenance. They are purchased from the manufacturer, not EH.
Jon - EH didn't knock down Savile Row - the DCMS was responsible for the early termination of the lease, it was a financial decision, and the building wasn't really listable.
http://www.riskybuildings.org.uk/docs/37fortress/index.html
It was the local authority (City of Westminster) which allowed it to be demolished, despite being in a conservation area. That's the planning authority.
No idea why your regional people wouldn't come out and look, but did you apply for consent? That's when EH gets involved -its remit is actually quite limited and they are often very overstretched.
Jon Maine
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You have to excuse us in Somerset, the cider affects the way we retain information and how officials deal with us!!
I have had a rough time with them at times, mainly due to policy change and 2 particular individuals. If the policy were not changed and I never met those 2 or others like them I would have been left feeling well served by an organisation which did not back track. I do have some good friends who work there or used to.
Yes you are right Nemisis, better provenance than most reclaimed and also probably complete.
Whats wrong with a hand carved stone one though!! :lol:
I have had a rough time with them at times, mainly due to policy change and 2 particular individuals. If the policy were not changed and I never met those 2 or others like them I would have been left feeling well served by an organisation which did not back track. I do have some good friends who work there or used to.
Yes you are right Nemisis, better provenance than most reclaimed and also probably complete.
Whats wrong with a hand carved stone one though!! :lol:
Jon Maine
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- 1,197
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- Shepton Mallet, Somerset
You have to excuse us in Somerset, the cider affects the way we retain information and how officials deal with us!!
I have had a rough time with them at times, mainly due to policy change and 2 particular individuals. If the policy were not changed and I never met those 2 or others like them I would have been left feeling well served by an organisation which did not back track. I do have some good friends who work there or used to.
Yes you are right Nemisis, better provenance than most reclaimed and also probably complete.
Whats wrong with a hand carved stone one though!! :lol:
I have had a rough time with them at times, mainly due to policy change and 2 particular individuals. If the policy were not changed and I never met those 2 or others like them I would have been left feeling well served by an organisation which did not back track. I do have some good friends who work there or used to.
Yes you are right Nemisis, better provenance than most reclaimed and also probably complete.
Whats wrong with a hand carved stone one though!! :lol: