Dreamland/Pleasureland

[Nemesis]

One for Gareth - as much as possible (but sadly not the Haunted Inn as it's full of asbestos) is being rescued and moved off site into storage to hopefully be rebuilt as part of the Heritage Amusement Park for Dreamland.

Long way to go yet but as Sefton is razing the site...

In fact I still have an appeal lodged re the refusal to list (EH wrong again...) but think it's all a fine line and things may be better saved in this case by relocation. As the Fun House is no more then Group Value is lost with that, River Caves was always iffy...

Once all rescued stuff off site I might be naughty about the Haunted Inn but it's all a fine balancing act and goodwill has to be maintained until what can be rescued is off site...

 

[Gareth Hughes]

One for Gareth - as much as possible (but sadly not the Haunted Inn as it's full of asbestos) is being rescued and moved off site into storage to hopefully be rebuilt as part of the Heritage Amusement Park for Dreamland.

Long way to go yet but as Sefton is razing the site...

In fact I still have an appeal lodged re the refusal to list (EH wrong again...) but think it's all a fine line and things may be better saved in this case by relocation. As the Fun House is no more then Group Value is lost with that, River Caves was always iffy...

Once all rescued stuff off site I might be naughty about the Haunted Inn but it's all a fine balancing act and goodwill has to be maintained until what can be rescued is off site...

Any more detailed idea of what's being relocated?

I was very, um, "amused" by last night's "Coast" on BBC2 which mentioned something to the effect (I was out of the room at the time so just heard it) that Blackpool was being considered as a World Heritage Site. Hmmmm. ICOMOS being a bit better than EH then, but they'll still have to move fast.

(edit) Seems it's true - http://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/ViewArticle.aspx?SectionID=62&ArticleID=1691336

quote:
Writing in British Archaeology magazine, they say: "It is without question the world's first working class seaside resort, as well as being the still-beating heart of an evolving but distinctive tradition of vulgar but vital commercial popular entertainment.
"Its only possible rival for this status is New York's Coney Island."
But crucially they add Coney Island - and another US contender Atlantic City - do not have enough surviving relics from their early days.
:shock: :? :roll:

(edit again): http://www.britarch.ac.uk/ba/ba90/feat1.shtml

 

[Nemesis]

Yes it is being considered. But I don't think PBB actually has much to do with the bid!

There's stuff going on with EH and Blackpool but... I have no faith. Also I didn't do the app. I'm worried. I was moving a step at a time... I suspect a load of garbled stuff from people with more enthusiasm than sense.

I have though as you know sent a previous report about the coasters and other things being important and had certain conversations with the DCMS and lots of e-mailing EH about amusement park history...

I see though that Dr Bowdler is speaking at the autumn conference on seasides saying that maybe they aren't listing the right things... grrrrr!!!! Oh how I agree!!!! And until I jumped up and down and made a fuss I doubt he had any idea really.

So - the Save Dreamland campaign has booked a place on the conference and I think a few pertinent questions will be asked...

Yes I know what is being saved, I've known about it all for quite a while but my lips had to be sealed.

It's been a difficult decision - did we try to pursue the listing knowing that the things could be bulldozed while we waited, or try for a rescue. The idea of the Heritage Park is to try to rescue rides from other places closing too.

The listed cinema at Margate is penned in for a sort of visitor centre/'museum' re amusement park history.

I hope that it's making the best of a situation which none of us wanted. However, Margate Partnership and the local authority is onboard, which is more than can be said for Sefton, and the Developer of the Dreamland site has paid to have the rides moved and stored ... so at the moment no-one is looking gift horses in the mouth.... I think there are still a number of planning and developer battles to be fought though.

I also hope we don't have to try to dismantle the Nash... Big Dipper... etc etc...

I will treasure forever the letter from Marcus B he wrote for me to Sefton try to get them to put a temp preservation order on the Pleasureland site...

Anyhow - Margate:

Our proposals for the world's first Heritage Amusement Park at Dreamland moved a step closer this week as dismantling work commenced on the remaining rides at the defunct Pleasureland Amusement Park in Southport, Merseyside. The rides, which are some of the last remaining examples of their type in the world, will be placed in storage to enable them to be rebuilt as part of the proposed Heritage Amusement Park.



Southport's Pleasureland is one of only a handful of seaside amusement parks in this country that still have original vintage amusement park rides. Rides such as the River Caves and Caterpillar date back to the 1920s. Sadly the park closed last year and the rides were due to be bulldozed this month to make way for a new temporary fairground operator. I have been in discussion with Blackpool Pleasure Beach and Pleasureland's new owners, Sefton Council, since February with a view to removing all the original rides to allow them to be placed in storage for use in the proposed Heritage Amusement Park. Thankfully the rides being 'donated' to the Dreamland project.



The rides currently being dismantled include the vintage 1960-built Wild Mouse wooden roller coaster that formerly operated at Morecambe's Frontierland and the 1922 Caterpillar, identical to the one that operated at Dreamland between 1922 and 1980, becoming one of its most famous rides. The Campaign's contractors (Hopkinson Construction Engineering Ltd - who have just completed construction of the Knightmare coaster at Camelot Theme Park) started work on ride dismantling on Wednesday 6 June and work should finish by 30 June.



I visited Pleasureland a few weeks ago with ride engineers Dave Collard and David Wragg to survey the condition of the rides, most of which were in reasonably good condition. The rides would have all been bulldozed over the next few weeks as Sefton Council are in the process of clearing the site for Norman Wallis (‘Dreamstorm’), who has an 18-month lease on the site. We were given a very tight deadline to secure the necessary funding and remove the rides. A large proportion of the funding has been provided by the Margate Town Centre Regeneration Company Ltd (MTCRC), the owners of Dreamland. I would therefore like to take this opportunity to thank Toby Hunter and the rest of the team at MTCRC; without their help these rides would undoubtedly have been lost and the Dreamland Heritage Amusement Park project could not have been delivered. I would also like to thank Susan Marsh and Dave Collard of the Save Dreamland Campaign for their valuable assistance and Tony Corfield at Sefton Council for his cooperation, and for keeping the rides safe whilst the bulldozers cleared the rest of the site!



I believe that the Heritage Amusement Park is the best option to secure the future of the Grade 2 listed Scenic Railway and for the distinguished history of the park to be recognised. It is also no exaggeration to say that within the next 12 months most of the country's amusement park heritage outside of Blackpool and Great Yarmouth will be lost. It is therefore an ideal way of safeguarding and preserving the UK's amusement park heritage at this critical time. I am currently in active discussions with a number of other parks with a view to saving their threatened historic rides and moving them to Dreamland. The Dreamland project could not have been better timed and will undoubtedly play a pivotal role in the regeneration of Margate.



We have set up a Trust, which we have imaginatively called 'The Dreamland Trust'. This organisation can assist in delivering the project on the ground. Initial feasibility work undertaken by the Trust and by independent consultants show that the project should be viable. Further feasibility work on the project is to be undertaken over the coming weeks by a leading tourism consultancy.



The project still has a long way to go, but I am hopeful that we can open the new Heritage Amusement Park for the 2009 season. I look forward to continuing to work with MTCRC and Thanet District Council to deliver this first-class visitor attraction to Margate.



Visit our website to find out more about these exciting proposals.



Regards



Nick Laister

Save Dreamland Campaign

http://www.savedreamland.co.uk



P.S. Here is the full list of rides that are being removed from Pleasureland: Wild Mouse/King Solomon's Mines wooden roller coaster; River Caves; Ghost Train; Haunted Swing; Mirror Maze; Mistral Flying Machine/Flying Scooters; Sandstorm/Astro Swirl; Caterpillar; Sky Ride (Chairlift); and remaining Fun House machines. The Crooked House will not be removed due to asbestos contamination. Visit http://www.savedreamland.co.uk over the next few days and you find loads of new information about the ride removal process, including some background to the rides we have acquired. We will also be launching a completely new version of our Concept Plan, amended to take into account rides that we have secured and those that we dearly wanted but failed to save.


Pleasureland should reopen to the public as the new 'Euro Attractions Park' in July.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

As the River Caves at PBB are about to be "rethemed" using the dinosaurs from Southport, perhaps the original sets from the Blackpool caves can be rescued too (as the original set dressing from Southport was scrapped when it became "valley of the dinosaurs" or whatever in the late 1990s)?

 

[Nemesis]

I don't think that the River Caves are to be rethemed using the dinos, I think last I heard they are destined for something else. They cost a lot of cash and have been moved off site though.

Compared with what is at River Caves PBB they are poor stuff indeed!

Don't believe everything you read on the fansites, many aren't really too clued up but big on speculation.

(I sometimes post on 'em...)

The bloody 'set dressing' was what EH decided was why they wouldn't list! Crazy - it's theatre, the sets change... the boats and waterways and machinery didn't change! As far as I am aware they date from the original site (I need to dig out my report...) and were moved to Pleasureland post WWi. The oldest dark ride in the country, if not the world!

Also EH said the boats had vanished - yes, stacked up on dry land outside, and I sent a picture to prove how wrong the EH isnpector was.

I think I'm getting through in the end that you can't look at these in the same way you look at a Geo house, but all too damned late!!

 

[Nemesis]

Conference:

http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/server/show/nav.11126

And:

http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/upload/pdf/Summaries_of_papers.pdf

You might wish to read Roger B's synopsis...

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Conference:

http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/server/show/nav.11126

And:

http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/upload/pdf/Summaries_of_papers.pdf

You might wish to read Roger B's synopsis...

I'd like to go to the conference and stir things up, but unfortunately my professional responsibilities don't include any coastline :?

 

[Nemesis]

'Heritage protection of seaside resorts – is it adequate?'


Hmmm...

 

[Nemesis]

Oh - SDC got a place reduced as a voluntary organisation. If you can find a voluntary organisation to have you as its rep... although you may have to take your tent...

 

[Nemesis]

Pics:

http://www.conceptnews.org/cyclone/pleasureland/pleas0607/


http://www.conceptnews.org/cyclone/pleasureland/pleas0607/pleas0607/dscf4954.htm


I'm really gutted this has to be bulldozed. It's only one of three and the oldest (the Dymchurch one was moved from Battersea).
EH refused to list as the two displays behind glass panels had been re-themed from the original 'There Was a Crooked Man' to horror...

 

[Nemesis]

And as for Coney Island:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/travel/2007/apr/22/escape.newyork.uk

 

[Nemesis]

However, apparently oop north is all the same to those dahn souf:

http://www.kentnews.co.uk/kent-news/Dreamland-looks-to-Liverpool-for-vintage-rides-newsinkent4122.aspx


Liverpool indeed.

 

[Nemesis]

Just a reminder...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpVFBXwj4IE#svxhR3KTPIs

 

[Nemesis]

Latest:

http://www.joylandbooks.com/scenicrailway/news.htm

Scenic:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Scenic+Railway+Margate&search=Search


Pleasureland RIP:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7abDiT3uTrk

 

[Nemesis]

Pics of the removal of rides from Pleasureland (thanks to Nick):

http://www.joylandbooks.com/scenicrailway/images/gallery9.htm

And Jim's from his 'Displeasureland' site:

http://www.conceptnews.org/cyclone/230607/



The asbestos problem on the Haunted Inn is sheet stuff under the tiles, but the thing was built in situ and can't simply be dismantled (or not quickly and easily). Sure it could be done if there was time and cash...

Dr Pugh, MP for Southport, reported in Hansard:


'Regeneration is a difficult business, and it is a rollercoaster ride for anyone who embarks on it. A major regional attraction will open this month in my resort. It will be called Splashworld, and I am happy to put in a plug for it here. As I go back to my resort, I shall see cranes around the town, which testify to the building of new hotels, a conference centre and so on. I do not share the views of the hon. Member for Blackpool, South (Mr. Marsden) about Blackpool Pleasure Beach, which last year, cynically, stupidly and in trust-destroying fashion closed its Pleasureland operation in Southport, leaving the site semi-vandalised. Within weeks, there will be renewed activity on that site and international marketing of a prime opportunity. I seek to bring home the fact that for most towns, seaside regeneration is struggle. It is a tough ride, but I hope that the report will help people to go on that journey.'

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200607/cmhansrd/cm070607/halltext/70607h0004.htm


http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ewie5zPy9WU

Comment under that :

I have just come across this and am really shocked. Last year I went on a European holiday to Rome, Paris, Berlin, Amsterdam... and Southport - because I loved this old and slightly quaint amusement park. Three months after I went and this happens. Doris & Geoffrey Thompson will be turning in their graves at what their daughter has done. Why didn't they just leave the rides they weren't taking or selling standing so any future owner could decide what to do with them.

 

[Nemesis]

Latest pics:

http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/themachinecity/Pleasureland26thJune20071