drain leaking and seeping into cellar

[fothers]

Hi,

Our house was built in 1907 and we are in a hilly town in the peak district. We are at the bottom of a very steep hill and built into it so the cellar at the back of the house is more underground than at the front.

The cellar is a 2 room affair and was previously very dry but a couple of months ago seemed to seep in water at the back (deeper bit) and run through to the other room. We thought initially it was due to all the rain, maybe ground outside saturated etc. We have a drainage cover thing that we got cheap this year along with the boiler cover. The man came out and said as we thought the water was clean that was probably it. He thought the drain seemed to be too far to be a problem.

We have persevered with every old towel we have mopping up and unsure what to do next. However, the last week has been extremely hot and we have had zero rain and there is still loads of water appearing. We put food dye down a rear drain yesterday that the dishwasher and washing machine go into and nothing.

The cellar had been dryed out and then we noticed it was after the bath and shower was used upstairs that water appeared and can pin point now where it is coming from- tiny hole near the base of the wall at the back of the cellar. When we looked closely you could see some bubbles appearing from the kids bath. I have ordered some drain dye from Amazon which should arrive today to confirm.

I have phoned the drain cover plan again but am quite worried as to what they should do and how they will manage.

The shower and bath pipes go into a drain beside on of the side doors of the house (along with the gutter). Where the water is coming in is a solid internal wall of the cellar which I presume has earth behind it (non accessible anyway). It is floor boards in the hall which is probably above that space but it must be 7 foot below and a board lifted in the vicinity shows a foot gap and then stuff (will need to lift again and find out what it is but it looks dry). So, I have no idea how they would replace the drain?

Do you think it continues to drop vertically to the level of the cellar floor from ground level outside where the pipes enter it and then goes to the front of the house and the road, or will it slope gradually to the road?

I am starting to panic a bit about access.

I presume it is a clay pipe underground as likely the original. I just want to know what to expect this man to do when he comes back (not til Thursday!) as no idea how you would go about fixing it.

Any wise words appreciated and congratulations for making it to the end of a rather long post!

 

[Lime]

I've no idea what the drain man will say either.
If the drains were mine I'd replace them completely with a modern plastic system.
Even if the man claims it is just a blockage in the pipe the water should not be leaking out.
All clay drains, pipes and manholes are likely to leak, in all probability your drains have been leaking for years.
There is no satisfactory way a leaking clay pipe can be repaired or patched up easily.
The system will cause you problems in the future particularly if you have a cellar.
The subterranean drainage system of the average old building is perhaps the only aspect of an old property that is substantially improved by being replaced with modern plastic.
Otherwise I abhor plastic and avoid its use wherever possible.

Do you think it continues to drop vertically to the level of the cellar floor from ground level outside where the pipes enter it and then goes to the front of the house and the road, or will it slope gradually to the road?

It is highly unlikely that the pipe drops to the level of the internal cellar floor.
The pipe is most likely laid following the contour of the land... i.e. laid with as little digging as possible!
The leaking water will percolate down through the earth taking the easiest route it can and in your case that route is into your cellar.

 

[Flyfisher]

I've heard about techniques to repair underground pipes in situ by re-lining them. I've no experience of this technique and I've no idea if it's cost effective for domestic pipe work but it might be worth investigating. A cursory search suggests there are a lot of companies offering such a service so you should be able to find a local one to talk to. Here's an example with some explanatory information - just one link I found, I've no connection with them.
http://www.lanesfordrains.co.uk/services/drain/drain-relining/

Otherwise, I basically agree with Lime's post. We've had problems with old clay drainage pipes that have mostly been due to tree and plant roots breaking and blocking them and over the years I've replaced most of them with modern plastic pipe work, sometimes simply bypassing the clay pipes with a new run where access has been problematic - it all depends on the local conditions really.

(Edited to add link)

 

[MatthewC]

On my house, I was worried about several things on the same lines, but I found a really good groundworker who was not worried at all, they were his bread and butter. He did things in half an hour which I thought would be almost impossible (and therefore really expensive). That's the tradesman you want to find, not a plumber (which I bet is who visited you).

The subterranean drainage system of the average old building is perhaps the only aspect of an old property that is substantially improved by being replaced with modern plastic.

Absolutely. Even our prickly Conservation Officer has no interest in what we put under the ground - it seemed to be the only thing that he and Building Control agree on!

 

[Pennyviz]

I've heard of being able to line pipes, (google lining drains), but not sure how effective this is.

 

[Greg.Hobson]

We have a house in Huddersfield (close up to the Peak District, but maybe a few 10's of miles up from Derbyshire) that we rent out and have had a drain lined there to close off about 3 unused drains that opened under the floorboards and allowed in various unsavoury wildlife!

The process was amazing and took about an hour on a very hot summers day - this was important as it meant that the contact adhesive that is used to stick the liner in the old pipe dried quickly.

The man pushed a CCTV lens down the pipe and located every drain entering the one to be lined, measuring the distance from the access at each located other drain. We then ran water down the drain from every sink, bath, gutter and any other place where water might be gathered up and disposed of and the man noted which other drains were in use due to this activity and which were not.

He then cut out holes in the liner at the correct distances to allow used drains to discharge into the newly-lined drain and left the liner complete where there were old drains no longer in use, thus blocking them off.

He then smeared contact adhesive over the outside of the liner, pushed it up the drain and then sent a balloon thingy up the liner that pressed it against the old drain, which it stuck to due to the vast quantities of contact adhesive all over it and that was that!

As mentioned earlier, time taken was short and therefore surprisingly inexpensive - about £100 for his hours work.

As long as the operative has access through a manhole reasonably close to the leak, I do not believe it should be too big a job and not really complicated and not requiring groundworks. I just used the yellow pages and called a national service that had local operatives, so nobody special really, just someone with the right kit and lots of practice.

 

[fothers]

Hi all, thank you for the replies.
A different man from the company came today. He put some seal round the collar of the drain and tried the dye again but it still leaked so they are booked in next Wednesday to lift the flagstones around the drain and investigate the problem. It is about 30 foot to the manhole which is at the edge of the garden, but it must be leaking fairly near the start of the drain.

He says when they work out exactly what has gone wrong and where after they have excavated some then he will know better the best way to fix it which is fair enough. Roll on next week!!