Door design

[paulb33]

Hi All,

The joiner is making 5 exterior doors. The door is a simple design, with 3x3 glazing over timber base.

We have little to go on by way of original photos:

The first photo is from a 1994 survey report. This is slightly misleading - there has been a sheet of ply fixed on to rotten timbers to the base.
The second photo shows an open door on the 1st floor balcony. From this, we can deduce the glazing.
The third photo shows my joiner's rough sketch (left) and my own design (right). I don't like the joiners sketch.

So, my question is: should I be specifying anything particular to an Edwardian door? What should I be asking for/avoiding? I'd hate to spend the money and yet end up with 'Edwardian pastiche....'

Thanks again!

Paul

 

[plasticpigeon]

hello paul. I don't think you should be too influenced by the width of the stiles around the glazed section. Glazed doors as far as I know, had diminished stiles, so the stiles are thicker below the glazing than adjacent to it. Also I would be surprised if the bottom and middle rails would be as thin as you've drawn, on my doors they are at least 20 cm in depth. In a diminished stile door the middle rail has skewed sides to allow the stiles to increase in width across the middle rail. I'm having trouble finding a picture, but something like this.

I'm not really sure about the panel, but being an outside door it would probably be quick a heft one, but I think your joiners drawing with one panel more likely than a tongue and groove type look.

 

[paulb33]

I'm not really sure about the panel, but being an outside door it would probably be quick a heft one, but I think your joiners drawing with one panel more likely than a tongue and groove type look.

That's really helpful, PP. Re: the panel, I had in my minds eye a more simple tounge and groove. Thinking this would tie in with the arts & crafts style and the somewhat crude window glazing bars, etc.

 

[malcolm]

I don't know whether mine is original from around 1925. Probably is - damned heavy thing so isn't going to be recent but it could be a replacement. If you search Google images for arts and crafts door or 1920 door quite a few reproductions show up as triple panelled. It would match your glass.

 

[88v8]

Your 94 picture shows a gunstock door.
Here in our previous house is the gunstock I put in the bathroom (with its daaangerous 3mm glass)



The stiles diminished from about 4" to 2". The muntin was also 4". It was, I think, Viccy, but the basic proportions would not change.

Here - if the forum software does not crop the rh of the pic... drat, it has, but if you click on it the door may reappear?... - is the door to the small conservatory of our house. I may have a better pic, or not, will look tomorrow..
That was not a gunstock door, but the lower panel is of interest, being flush and with inset vertical moulding like a giant match & bead.



I would think the joiner's lower panel might be more appropriate to a more formal Edwardian house, or perhaps where the formal rooms opened onto the exterior, and in such a house the flush-panelled door might be relegated to the conservatory or orchid house or banana house or monkey house or.... but I would personally think it quite appropriate to your house which harks back to a simpler time.

Ivor

PS Malcolm may note the pipe to hopper arrangement in our 1991 extension, to which I referred in another thread.

 

[malcolm]

I like your hopper. It has quite a big effect - so many older buildings have been covered up that little features like that make the building look like an original.

Good point about less formal doors inside. I reckon my front door is original - it has a bar to hold stained glass which gives me an idea for a future project. Must get around to welding the original handle back together.

The rest of the doors downstairs are more recent but generally quite pleasant. I've been looking to replace some with fire doors (because of the fire risk caused by it not being a pub with an industrial kitchen any more) but it's not easy to find nice ones.

 

[plasticpigeon]

I hate commenting on architecture, as it seems to be a subject that inspires a lot of haughtiness, but I will venture an opinion that the design of your house sems to have quite a lot in common with those of Norman Shaw who famously designed some of the Bedford Park estate. If local snooping doesn't throw up a door design that seems similar to yours, looking at some of his designs might give some inspiration.

Although I know it is possible to create something new that looks original, it can be very difficult, because the proportion and detailing of historic designs are not familiar to most these days, and certainly tradespeople don't often get asked to faithfully reprodiuce old details either. As you have no doubt found, it requires hours of searching and planning. I've just nearly finished my kitchen, and decided to make a fire surround for the old chimney breast where the range would have been. My first attempt wasnt right at all, the proportions were wrong. My second attempt is better as the corbels are bigger and I've added a cornice between the frieze and mantel shelf, but it still doesn't look quite authentic to me, but I'm not sure why!!!! These things are difficult.

 

[plasticpigeon]

I've just glanced at your blog. It looks like you are doing a lot of investigation and going to considerable lengths to get all the details right! Makes my previous comment seem irrelevant as you are way ahead of me! Just out of interest, what do the internal doors look like?

Is this anything to do with you?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/35144812@N07/sets/72157621712991235/

 

[paulb33]

I've just glanced at your blog. It looks like you are doing a lot of investigation and going to considerable lengths to get all the details right! Makes my previous comment seem irrelevant as you are way ahead of me! Just out of interest, what do the internal doors look like?

Is this anything to do with you?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/35144812@N07/sets/72157621712991235/

Thats not me. But, I do moderate a John Coates Carter Flickr group, here. http://www.flickr.com/groups/2208809@N22/

I'm a big fan of Norman Shaw and in fact Coates Carter studied under Shaw at the Royal Academy, about the time that Bedford Park was being constructed. So, clearly influenced by him. Coates Carter then became partner with the gothic revivalist, JP Seddon.

I'm being a little obsessive, for sure. My blog gives a link to a TV programme that featured the house a few years ago - there's some interior footage showing doors in that. http://redhouserestoration.wordpress.com/2013/12/05/red-house-on-ttelly/

The interior is pretty much intact and as designed. Its this fact that makes the uPVC windows such an extra-ordinary act of vandalism.

The interior doors are quite extravagant in quarter sawn oak. Some quick snaps attached (poor quality....sorry).

Thanks for your interest!

Paul

 

[malcolm]

I wonder if the boarding of the whole of the bottom of the door from the survey report hints at it's construction. A panel door would have to be pretty bad for someone to do that rather than just stick a bit of wood on the bottom rail. The green boarded door on the blog looks like it could wick water up between the boards, justifying the extent of boarding.

 

[paulb33]

I wonder if the boarding of the whole of the bottom of the door from the survey report hints at it's construction. A panel door would have to be pretty bad for someone to do that rather than just stick a bit of wood on the bottom rail. The green boarded door on the blog looks like it could wick water up between the boards, justifying the extent of boarding.

Good point, Malcolm. That makes sense.
Paul
www.redhouserestoration.wordpress.com