Does the whole ceiling really need to come down?

[Coles]

Hi,

First off I just want to thank everyone for their help with all my questions, and apologies for yet another post on my early 1900's house renovation but I'm starting to feel concerned that the advice I am getting from the team doing the work applies to a newer homes.

Our house was turned into two flats in the 80's and we are putting it back to one, which meant the removal of stud walls in the hallway. In some place plasterboard was stuck over the lathe and plaster parts.

There is a small section which still has plasterboard but the rest is lath and plaster and the suggestion is to remove the entire ceiling. I am really not overjoyed by this idea. Not only the cost of reinstating the entire ceiling but then having to get all the cornice put back. Most of the ceiling looks fine to me and I don't want it to look like a new build.

I hope the pics give an idea of the problem. You can see there there is a hole in the cornice was where a double entrance to the flats was originally, and that part which is badly cracked (hole with wire) was covered with a piece of plasterboard.

You can also see near the stairs, there is some skimmed plasterboard that is joined into the original ceiling.

I think I need to contact a tradesperson who understands period homes and lath and plaster work.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Stevers]

There's nothing there that makes me think the whole ceiling needs to come down. Lose the plasterboard, then patch what's left, and consider lining paper before emulsioning.

It looks like there is staff beading where the ceiling meets the hole for the stairs, I painted that the woodwork colour and made a feature of it. There should be a groove creating a shadow gap for the lining paper to tuck into.

 

[Coles]

There's nothing there that makes me think the whole ceiling needs to come down. Lose the plasterboard, then patch what's left, and consider lining paper before emulsioning.

It looks like there is staff beading where the ceiling meets the hole for the stairs, I painted that the woodwork colour and made a feature of it. There should be a groove creating a shadow gap for the lining paper to tuck into.

Thank you. I did think we would just use lining paper. Is it best to just patch it with lath and plaster or could they just use the modern stuff?

 

[Stevers]

It's just a ceiling, I'd just use Thistle One Coat and Polyfilla. I'd wet the laths with weak PVA Bond and push the plaster well in, level off with a board, have a break and start to think about trying to 'polish' it off. I've never had a problem getting it to stick to anything - rather the reverse!
This is one I did earlier:
https://www.periodproperty.co.uk/fo...-plaster-ceiling-with-thistle-one-coat.18871/
On that ceiling I also scraped out the cracks, applied dilute PVA Bond and refilled with Polyfilla, it's almost all the original lath and plaster (from 1879) and looked dreadful, but it's come up really well. Aluminium Oxide paper and Polyfilla make me the plasterer I ain't!

 

[Cubist]

Fully concur with Stevers on both his replies above. The only thing that may be worth adding is that new plaster mouldings are available to replace damaged or missing sections. You would however need to have measured all the dimensions to ensure a good pattern match. These are fairly easy to instal as welll.

 

[Coles]

It's just a ceiling, I'd just use Thistle One Coat and Polyfilla. I'd wet the laths with weak PVA Bond and push the plaster well in, level off with a board, have a break and start to think about trying to 'polish' it off. I've never had a problem getting it to stick to anything - rather the reverse!
This is one I did earlier:
https://www.periodproperty.co.uk/fo...-plaster-ceiling-with-thistle-one-coat.18871/
On that ceiling I also scraped out the cracks, applied dilute PVA Bond and refilled with Polyfilla, it's almost all the original lath and plaster (from 1879) and looked dreadful, but it's come up really well. Aluminium Oxide paper and Polyfilla make me the plasterer I ain't!

Thank you. Would you like to do mine?

That sounds like the perfect solution and would mean I only had to get the cornice damage fixed.

Now it's a case of the builder doing it or finding someone else.

 

[Stevers]

Would love to, but you're a long way away! Builders don't generally like Thistle One Coat, as it's harder to 'polish', but I then don't like that hard polished look.

 

[Coles]

Would love to, but you're a long way away! Builders don't generally like Thistle One Coat, as it's harder to 'polish', but I then don't like that hard polished look.

Thank you. I have someone coming to look at it. I'm getting a little nervous that the guys I have are not getting it, great at pulling it down but I'm not so sure about putting things back.

 

[larry]

Just to say we pulled down our kitchen ceiling on advice and I do (to some extent) regret it as the plasterboard replacement lets SO much more sound through than the old lath and plaster. Admittedly it was probably a bigger challenge to fix than yours and was very helpful having access to underside to sort out cable runs and pipework but even so I do miss it!

 

[Coles]

Just to say we pulled down our kitchen ceiling on advice and I do (to some extent) regret it as the plasterboard replacement lets SO much more sound through than the old lath and plaster. Admittedly it was probably a bigger challenge to fix than yours and was very helpful having access to underside to sort out cable runs and pipework but even so I do miss it!

Thanks, I hate the idea of if coming down. But I had someone come out today who said it doesn't need to, and basically patch it and sort out the plaster board bits. As the very helpful advice on here suggested.

So now I have to speak to my builders to explain they won't be doing that job.

 

[Stevers]

So now I have to speak to my builders to explain they won't be doing that job.

Reckon they won't be the least bit upset. Very satisfying work if you have the mindset/skills for it, but otherwise...

 

[Coles]

Reckon they won't be the least bit upset. Very satisfying work if you have the mindset/skills for it, but otherwise...

It's not just that I have to tell them,agreed price but now extra costs are seeping in after the event. I have some decisions to make.

 

[malcolm]

Repairing lath ceilings is easy enough. I had one with lots of big holes knocked through that I repaired with lime and lath - https://www.the-salutation.co.uk/blog/2020/11/

 

[Cubist]

It's not just that I have to tell them,agreed price but now extra costs are seeping in after the event. I have some decisions to make.

There's an old, but reasonably meaningful, Rule of Thumb formula you can use to generate a Cost Estimate: -

Cost Estimate = (Most Optimistic Potential Cost + Most Pessimistic Potential Cost + ( 4 x Most Likely Potential Cost ) / 6

However, for Period Home Cost Estimates I've found it best to modify this formula and simplify it to: -

Cost Estimate = 2 x Most Pessimistic Potential Cost

Come what may you won't absolutely 'Nail It' with the latter formula but theres a greater chance your thumb won't be in the way of the hammer.

 

[Stevers]

Also, any DIY tackled will take at least twice as long as you ever thought it could!

In our conversion of flats to house we had a Schedule of Works drawn up by a very experienced Chartered Surveyor. It's fair to say that there was a bit of horse trading off the back of that to all parties satisfaction. I did some of the work on the Schedule (evenings and weekends), with a few significant items both coming into and out of scope for myself and the builder as we worked through it, as well as some genuine extras that were separately quoted for. We used our own sparky and plumber who we already knew, and my brother-in-law to fit the custom kitchen he made. Could have been a recipe for disaster, but the main contractor (the builder) was organised, competent and fair minded.
Somewhat surprisingly the project only took a month longer than the three months that we had estimated, though decoration was outside the scope of the works as I planned to do that 'properly' after we moved in.

 

[Coles]

Also, any DIY tackled will take at least twice as long as you ever thought it could!

In our conversion of flats to house we had a Schedule of Works drawn up by a very experienced Chartered Surveyor. It's fair to say that there was a bit of horse trading off the back of that to all parties satisfaction. I did some of the work on the Schedule (evenings and weekends), with a few significant items both coming into and out of scope for myself and the builder as we worked through it, as well as some genuine extras that were separately quoted for. We used our own sparky and plumber who we already knew, and my brother-in-law to fit the custom kitchen he made. Could have been a recipe for disaster, but the main contractor (the builder) was organised, competent and fair minded.
Somewhat surprisingly the project only took a month longer than the three months that we had estimated, though decoration was outside the scope of the works as I planned to do that 'properly' after we moved in.

I always have a contingency amount in place for extras but this was different as it was removing a stud wall around the staircase. It wasn't like there was a sudden discovery of something different. It just took longer. How do I know if everything is going to take longer, such as fitting the kitchen or changing a bulb. Is it cheaper if it's quicker?

Also if they are upfront about it, I wouldn't mind so much. As in before, but telling me after feels like they are taking the pee somewhat.

 

[Cubist]

I always have a contingency amount in place for extras but this was different as it was removing a stud wall around the staircase. It wasn't like there was a sudden discovery of something different. It just took longer. How do I know if everything is going to take longer, such as fitting the kitchen or changing a bulb. Is it cheaper if it's quicker?

Also if they are upfront about it, I wouldn't mind so much. As in before, but telling me after feels like they are taking the pee somewhat.

A now uncomfortably long time ago I conducted a study of the performance of project managers for a large multi-national that proved rather enlightening. Curiously this revealed that Scandinavian project managers were far more accurate and reliable in the delivery to Time, Quality and Cost objectives while the worst were the Italians. The success of the Scandies was discovered to be there cultural proclivity to Plan - Plan - Plan - Plan then Execute, while the Italians, despite their predominantly Catholic culture, assumed a more Islamic mindset best described as 'By the Will of God'.

Most tradespeople you meet went to the same school.

 

[Coles]

I just wanted to say thanks again for the advice.

This was how it looked with damaged ceiling and broken cornice.



And this is how far I have progressed



There is still lots to do but the cornice has been restored, along with the ceiling and rose.

 

[lizziecupcakes]

Also, any DIY tackled will take at least twice as long as you ever thought it could!

spot on!