Do I need a structural engineer?

[Nicole W]

Dear all

I would appreciate any advice you could offer.

We live in an unlisted 17th century house. Our bedroom ceiling is extremely low (about 6ft 1in). We would like to remove the ceiling and open up into the roof void. The house was originally thatched but was tiled over 100 years ago. There are modern ceiling joists which we would like to remove and replace with something more in keeping. However we don't want the roof to collapse on us so we need to get everything right before any work is started. Do we need a structural engineer to look at what we want to do? Or do we need an architect?

Many thanks

Nicole

 

[MatthewC]

Wow - 17th C, unlisted - why is my 1860 stone semi listed?!

I would suggest that the answer to both your questions is "yes". If you found a structural engineer with the right experience, it is possible you could do without the architect, but these are pretty major alterations that you are proposing on such an old building. You will (I am sure) require Building Control approval for such a major job, and they will want to see some calculations to go with the new design.

Is it your modern joists which are at such a low height? You might like to wonder why someone recently put them at that height which is presumably the original height, rather than higher (which would have been the "modern" way, however long ago that is!).

Also, I wonder if any strengthening was done when the tiles were fitted - I think tiles are heavier than thatch (but that could depenbd on what sort of tile they are). I would worry that 100 years ago they did not do any strengthening, and you might find it is required.

 

[88v8]

If you involve Building Control you are letting yourself in for a world of woes.

Above the ceiling, is there any support strutting off the joists?

Ivor

 

[mims&pip]

If you involve Building Control you are letting yourself in for a world of woes.

Above the ceiling, is there any support strutting off the joists?

Ivor

On the subject of Building Control, we found at our last (non-listed, thatched Georgian but with possibly earlier parts) house, that employing an independent building inspector gave us slightly more freedom and a less nit-picking attitude :wink:

Mims x

 

[88v8]

I was thinking to just get on with it. No Council no engineer.
The ceiling joists have two functions; one is to support the ceiling, the other is to keep the spiders in the attic. And support the cold water tank if applicable. They also have the minor function of preventing the roof from collapsing the house by pushing the walls apart.

If the OP has visions of a soaring roof with picturesque old beams, well, good. Perhaps. Although I'll bet those beams were never meant to be on show. So there is the possible Disneyfication aspect. Think bare rubble stone walls......

And.... if BC get involved they will bring with them the modern obsession with insulation and are likely to demand that the roof space be insulated to modern standard. So, to preserve any view of the old ceiling rafters the roof will have to come off so that insulation can be inserted underneath the tiles, or insulation will have to be inserted between the beams this reducing the extent to which they are visible anyway.
And to prevent the walls from spreading, and perhaps to prevent to roof from collapsing (see my original question) BC may insist on the introduction of beams or steels or suchlike modern ugliness. Supports and ties may indeed be necessary; if the house is timber framed, then someone with knowledge of old timber frame would be required to judge what and how, if the OP does not feel able to make their own decisions. A general structural engineer without this knowledge might go overboard with strengthening.

And even if BC don't get involved and insulation is ignored, the underside of the tiles will need hair plaster or some other treatment to make them windtight. Which will reduce the ventilation of the roof and may be detrimental. And unless it's done in a suitably wonky fashion will just look modern anyway.

Overall, there is a risk that the exercise will be messy and expensive and not very productive in aesthetic terms.
Although I could be wrong.

The OP might usefully spend some time in the attic having a good think about whether it's worth spending the time and effort on a room which is only used for sleeping. :wink:
I've heard of people putting mirrors on bedroom ceilings - no doubt a simpler solution to make the room look larger.
Low ceilings... part of the Period experience.

Ivor

 

[MatthewC]

The OP might usefully spend some time in the attic having a good think about whether it's worth spending the time and effort on a room which is only used for sleeping. :wink:
I've heard of people putting mirrors on bedroom ceilings - no doubt a simpler solution to make the room look larger.

I rather expected the :wink: to go with the second of the above sentences!