Delisting building within curtilage of another...

[biffvernon]

This appeared on IHBC Discussion Forum. Thought it interesting enough to be worth 'borrowing':

By AndrewM on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 05:51 pm:

Ok, slightly confusing I know but here's the situation. A listed farmhouse is very closely surrounded by several barns and a couple of granaries, three of which are listed in their own right. The owner would like to demolish one and successfully seeks its delisting: so far so good, but then you think, hang on, this is surely within the curtilage of a listed building (it's still in original use and ownership of the farmhouse) and therefore still protected? But is it - have EH by delisting it said that it no longer deserves any protection whatsoever or just that it doesn't have enough merit in its own right? And if that's the case, what was the point in the whole exercise because it hasn't gained the owner anything? Oh, and I forgot to mention it's in a CA too, but as a listed structure it wouldn't need CAC...but is it still a listed structure?! Anyone (especially from EH!) care to advise?

thanks
Andrew

 

[middi]

That is interesting.

I would have thought that there is not much difference in applying for LBC to have some structure removed as it is to have one added.

Both exercises would need to be evaluated on merit and/or impact on its vicinity.

I am sure that powers that be could put forward a valid explanation for rubber stamping their decision ( unless the general interest of the public convince them otherwise).

Who Knows.

 

[Penners]

Am I right in thinking that the district council planning office nominally operates as EH's agents in such matters? If so, presumably the CO will regard EH's decision as a nod to allow demolition.

 

[Nemesis]

It would be interesting to know why it was de-listed - that's the DCMS's decision...


But yes I'd still say it is maybe curtilage... it may also contribute positively to the Conservation Area, depends really.

 

[Penners]

Nemesis - is my assumption about the relationship between the CO and EH correct?

 

[Nemesis]

The local authority does decide on any application re listed buildings yes - although EH is the agent of the Gov, it's the Sec of State and the DCMS in charge not EH really.

Grade II* and I EH is also involved.

De-listing is interesting - it may be that it was wrongly listed in the first place! That is sometimes the argument... I know as I'm involved with a mega de-listing battle which may eventually go to Judicial Review. If the would be developer has deep pockets and a 'Historic Buildings Consultant' to argue the case, (independent of course... despite being paid ...) then at times things get de-listed which maybe shouldn't...

May not stop it being listed as curtilage though! Depends on when it was built and other factors.

However - PPG 15 states that listed buildings (and major CA buildings) have to be offered for sale on the open market or offered to any community group for use before being demolished... although public interest can override that, as can a crafty developer!

If enough people object and ask for a call-in there can be a Public Inquiry. But that would assume that the gov guidance may not have been followed (as with Easington Colliery School - given consent for demo by the local council against all advice...)

EH though would also have to be consulted about demo over a certain size I seem to recall.

It's all complex, the buildings usually lose out.

 

[Penners]

It's all complex.

That sounds like the understatement of the evening.

 

[middi]

If profits are at stake there never is amicable solutions, complexity is the game.