De-nailing old timbers

[Zebra]

OK, so how do you de-nail a very old timber beam that you want to re-use?

Nails are sticking out about an inch or two from the timber. I've currently got a crowbar under the nail, with a pair of vice-grips clamped over the nail shaft just above the crowbar, and a metal stake hooked over the end of the crowbar to extend the leverage. Some will go, but some still won't shift!! The vice-grips slide up the shaft before the nail will shift!

I have probably 50 to do, so after struggling for about half an hour to do about three, have stopped to consult the oracle!!

 

[Feltwell]

What sort of size are the nails?

I've got a "shark grip" nail puller that's great if the nail is not too large - it grips the shaft of the nail, by you whacking it's sharpened grip head into the nail with a hammer - rather than just relying on sitting under the nail head like most nail pullers do.

http://www.amazon.com/Shark-21-2030-Hardened-Steel-Pullers/dp/B0000224UX

For large nails with a head I just use a large 4' pry bar, with suitable wooden blocks to place under the heel to both stop it damaging the wood and block it out to the right angle, depending on how far out the nail head is. That should work better than mole-grips round the shaft of the nail.

http://www.screwfix.com/p/roughneck-gorilla-bar-48/29330

 

[Zebra]

Nails are various sizes. Largest are four inches long, protruding from timber two and a half inches. Others are shorter but rustier, with no heads left.

But that sharpened shark thingy is a piece of kit I've not seen before. Thanks for the tip.

 

[Feltwell]

If all else fails - cut or break the nail off flush with the face of the wood, punch the remains below the surface, and remember not to cut there!

 

[middi]

If the nails are wrought iron, ie- hand made-, you are in the lap of the gods, especially if the wood is oak.

These nails are very brittle and will snap easily, especially if they are " wriggled" once or twice. Also if the wood they are in is old, in good condition and hard you will be better off gripping the nail at the lowest point you can near the wood and with a steady back and forth movement snap it away. If done correctly the corroded part will usually snap and stay in the wood leavin a 2 to 3 mm clearance and below the wood surface.

There is no shame in showing old beams with " sunken" broken nails, it is part of the history. Attempt to fully remove these nails is not a good practice and results in unwante destruction that can be unsightly.

Also think of all the work !!!!!- or What will be achieved if removed.

Middi

 

[Zebra]

Many of the older nails have snapped already, and so Feltwell's approach is the only possible one. As you say Middi, there's nothing wrong with leaving the older ones in anyway.
But it's really the great big four inch ones from the 60s I'd like to get out. In those cases I suppose it's just a case of figuring out a way to get enough grip on the nail, enough even loading against the wood so as not to damage it, and a long enough lever! I've given up for today!

 

[middi]

Many of the older nails have snapped already, and so Feltwell's approach is the only possible one. As you say Middi, there's nothing wrong with leaving the older ones in anyway.
But it's really the great big four inch ones from the 60s I'd like to get out. In those cases I suppose it's just a case of figuring out a way to get enough grip on the nail, enough even loading against the wood so as not to damage it, and a long enough lever! I've given up for today!

The "modern" 4 inch nail can also be " snapped" close to or below the surface of the beams. The best way to achieve this is to use a long handed grip players, grip the nail as high as you can to the nail head and move back and forth. NOTE:- the movement has to be in such a manner ( the whole length of the exposed nail has to move ) that the initial bending of the nail must be very close to the wooden beam , if done correctly the nail will snap in the wood, if it protrudes a little, wack it with a hammer ( and punch, if needed) into the wood.

The danger is that if you try to force these nails out of the wood with " havy duty" bars, the chances are that if it comes out it will probably take most of the immediate wood to wich it is into with it, disfiguring the beam.

Middi

 

[Flyfisher]

I've also found that it can sometimes help to bang a stubborn nail into the wood slightly before trying to extract it. The idea, I think, is that moving the nail slightly within the wood loosens the grip of the wood on the nail, making it then easier to pull out.

Only sometimes, mind.

 

[middi]

Well mentioned FF, and yes , it does work.

Middi

 

[Zebra]

Yes that's true, that has happened with some of them, they've taken a bit of the timber with them. Not too badly though. Will give FF's method a go, and failing that, snap 'em off!
Perseverance!.....
Tomorrow!....... :wink:

 

[eezageeza]

If it's a very old beam, especially oak, then they'll probably never come out! But if it's newer, or softwood, we've used one of these very succesfully :

http://www.toolfastdirect.co.uk/acatalog/Nail_Pullers.html

- pulls nails out of floor boards with extraordinary ease, and almost no damage to the board!

 

[Zebra]

It's a very old beam, probably oak, I'm not sure, but definately an english hardwood. That looks a great piece of kit though. Thanks.

 

[geoff]

Another possibility might be heating the nail with a blowlamp first - it expands the metal and can help move the wood fibres and break any corrosion between the metal and wood which can be surprisingly hard and glue-like in oak. When it cools it may be easier to pull out. Use some foil to protect the wood.

 

[Zebra]

Oooooh! Clever tip! Don't have blowlamp. Hmm, would hairdryer do?!!

 

[MdB]

Oooooh! Clever tip! Don't have blowlamp. Hmm, would hairdryer do?!!

If it looks like this then possibly - otherwise no...

 

[Penners]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

The problem is that the tannic acid in oak tends to corrode ferrous metal. So the rough, corroded iron of old nails presents a tremendous resistance to sliding out. It also - as Middi say - makes the nails more likely to break. Add to that the fact that wrought iron nails will sometimes warp and even curl over inside the wood and you have, I'm afraid, an immovable object.

All the above ideas are worth a try - sometimes they'll work, sometimes they won't. But I agree with Middi that there's nothing wrong with a few bit of buried broken nail in your beam. It's called "character" - people pay extra for that!

 

[Feltwell]

Hit'em with a saw or a chisel and you won't call them "character", it will be something much cruder....... :lol:

I do agree, if they won't come out without damage then leave them in, but it does depend on what you want to do with the beam.

 

[Flyfisher]

Hit'em with a saw or a chisel and you won't call them "character", it will be something much cruder.......

Hit 'em with a sawbench and you'll get the fright of your life if a tip of the blade breaks off and inflicts a nasty cut in your eyebrow. No profanity involved though, more a moment of stunned silence as the possibility of other outcomes sinks in . . .

 

[Zebra]

So I reckon when I re-use them it'll be hand tools only, and a sacrificial saw and sacrificial chisel!

 

[Penners]

a moment of stunned silence as the possibility of other outcomes sinks in . . .

Amen to that. I was once using a spindle moulder when a piece of one of the cutters broke off. It smashed through the perspex guard, flew across the workshop and buried itself over an inch into the concrete block wall. I suspect that human flesh would have offered it no resistance whatsoever. :shock: