Dating old wiring

[Anonymous]

Hello all,

I wonder if anyone with a knowledge of early 20th century electrical wiring could suggest a rough date for some old wiring I have uncovered.

Whilst doing a bit of repair work on skirtings on my landings of my 1895 terrace, I discovered a bit of old electrical cabling, which was poking out from the floorboard near the wall.

The cable itself was interesting, because it is covered an a lead sheath, which appears extruded, since there is no visible seam. Within is a layer of fabric, and then what might have been a bitumen like substance (very crumbly now) and finally several strands of tinned copper wire.

I am pretty certain that this fairly modest house would not have had electricity from new, and there is copious evidence of lead piping for gas lighting.

My suposition is that this cable may date from an instalation of an electricity supply perhaps after WW1.

I have also found brass and ceramic lightswitches which may be of relevance.

any info about when this cabling might have been installed would be much appreciated.

Regards
D.T.

 

[Anonymous]

I think cotton/rubber replaced lead sheathed for domestic use in the 30s. IIRC the WW1 install I saw was paper insulated.

If any of the accessories look nice they can be incorporated into a modern install, but NOT by just wiring them in same as a new item.

I've never heard of anyone dating old wiring before. I quite like it but wouldnt go that far. Wheres Grimmers when you need him?

NT

 

[Anonymous]

Old wiring was often done in lead with paper being a popular insulator. Bitumen like materials also used in the pre-plastic days along with another material called Gutta Percha, the same material used for old golf balls. The lead probably was extruded as the same methods that made the gas piping would have been used. There used to be a mthod of determining the manufacturer by means of a coloured thread in the cable. This meathod still in use until quite recently. But as to dating it... My guess that it is very early and possibly pre WW1. Also possible that it was a home install and also possible that it was a DC system and also possibly not connected to anything but a generator. I would assume that the use of electricity would have been for lighting and the general availability of bulbs seems to have been from the 1st decade of the last century although quite expensive for the man-in-the-street. However technology is not easy to date precisely and hence coul;d still have been as late as the 1930s, but after that the use of rubber as an insulator would have been more common.

 

[Anonymous]

im sure ive posted this before but never mind...

there were lots of strange ways of wiring pre say 1920s or so, including conduit and singles(rubber and cloth) and lead, lead i have seen up to as late as 1940, singles in conduit (rubber and cloth) ive seen as late as mid 1950s.

i actuly have managed to get my hands on a "callender" lead cable junction box, with the cable still in (i had to cut it out though ) few weeks ago but havent done anything with it, very interesting construction, inciddently, in the house the lead cable was running all over the place at Diagonals ect so im guessing lead was expensive that year! - 1936 i beleve after all the old papers that were found....

oh and after 1940 indian rubber insulated cables came in, then mid 1960s-ish had a mixture, a cable (very rare) that was ashathene sheathed and indian rubber insulated

late 1960s saw ashathene (its kind of metalic/silvery looking pvc feeling material)
1970s saw the first pvc imperial cable sizes and then later on we went metric and the modern pvc/pvc insulated was born....

 

[Anonymous]

NT and Hampton,

Thanks for the responses. My interest in dating this wiring is not from a deep interst in historic cables, but more what the cables represent as a piece of historic evidence, shedding light (no pun intended) on the people who once occupied the house and how they lived. I have uncoverd other fragments of history, some which point to the ordinary, others paint a more vivid and personal picture of the lives of the former occupants. This is just one of them.

The house is a reasonably nice lower middle class dwelling, (lots of decoration where it would be seen, little where it wouldn't) and it would be very unlikely that the installation of electricity would have occurred when it was still exlusive and expensive luxury.

I have all the deeds dating back to the first sale of the house to a shopkeeper and a travelling salesman, from the Marquis of Bute. My supposition is that these two upwardly mobile Victorians bought the house as an investment and rented it out. They might have invested in an electricity supply, but this seems unusually altruistic.

The second owners were a family, and they seem to be the likely candidates. The original board that our current electric meter is installed on proclaims itself the property of City of Cardiff electricity department, and the number stamped on the plaque suggests that we were the 14,120th installation.

The electricity company sounds municipal and 14 thousand houses in Cardiff had electricity before us, so the owners were not exactly early adopters.

They had money, but they weren't rolling in it. In short exactly the kind of people you would expect to be living here at the beginning of the last century. The area began a gradual decline in the 30's that it is only now beginning to recover from; a process which, sadly, is resulting in the further wholesale vandalism of these beautiful houses. I intend mine to be an exception.

all of this interests me since it adds colour to my mental picture of the lives that have been lived in this house in the 110 years it has existed.

finally there is a red cotton thread running through the fabric insulation just inside the lead tube. anyone know who might have made it, or is that pushing it ;-)

Thanks again,

D.T.

 

[Anonymous]

It could have been a diy job. I know that my grandfather (a great believer in progress) was the first in his road to have indoor plumbing and electricity, and he installed it all himself.

 

[Anonymous]

Have you tried ringing Cardiff Council or Cardiff Library - they might be able to trace your electrical installation?

 

[Anonymous]

A note re diagonal cables.

Electrical installs were only affordable to a limited number at the time. Lead cable isnt cheap now, and income was much lower then, so yes it would have been pricey.

But also significantly, there would have been no reason not to run it diagonally. Awareness of concepts like permitted zones would have been something belonging to a minority then. Consider that bare live fittings were perfectly legal, and normal, even in the 30s. IIRC there was a recommendation that things all be insulated, but that was as far as it went. They werent IRL.

I know in the 70s some bare live things were still considered quite normal. Bare electric heaters were quite common. And even today, bare live bulb ends and sockets are still sold and in use, specifically the 220mm linear 30w bulbs. Touch the wrong bit putting one of those in and you'll be got.

The issue of cable runs would have been considered as aesthetic only. Anyone doing a risk analysis would conclude that diagonals were a trivial risk compared to lack of cord grips, bare live fittings, high earth resistance, arcing switches, excessively rated fuses with inadequate rupturing capacity, lack of earths, flexes that disintegrated where they entered bulbholders, and so on.

NT

 

[Anonymous]

Of course if the person living in the house was an electrician, then the cost of installing it would have been lower?

Would the installation of electricity mimic the installation of gas w.r.t. piping/wires

 

[Anonymous]

yeh but most of the houses i see lead in is immaculate above and below floors, although, they are probrably....better able to afford it at the time....

 

[Anonymous]

Indeed, electricity was a fancy product, so it went in the more well to do houses, and would have looked thoroughly good. Aesthetics and image alone.

Consider any product only affordable to a minority: professionally supplied products are always well groomed.

NT

 

[Anonymous]

Mimic it in what way?

BTW B&Q are still selling wooden trunking, for any period enthusiasts.

NT

 

[Anonymous]

What I meant was that the installers of early electrical cabling could have copied the same techniques in routing electrical cables as they would have done for gas. Although diagonals would surely have been a no-no?

 

[Anonymous]

"it went in the more well to do houses"

Not always, NT. My grandad was verging on the poor side, but he had electricity (see my post above). I doubt whether he was unique. Duncan says his house is an 1895 terrace, so it doesn't sound all that grand, either.

 

[Anonymous]

I served an indentured apprenticeship with the Yorkshire Electricity Board (1958-63) when lead cable of varying sorts was pretty common. The service to terraced houses in particular was twin lead covered and run from a central junction box along the walls to an individual house. I fitted many new installations (dc and ac) to houses which previously only had gas. The single lead covered you mention was still in use though I am blowed if I can remember where I used it or what on. Certainly by then houses were normally wired in India rubber twin cables, size 7/029 for 15amp sockets, 3/029 for 5amp sockets and lighting circuits, or cotton covered rubber single cables (red and black) for conduit installations.
I seem to remember seeing single lead covered cables used in bell or signal circuits (for summoning servants etc) which would make sense in that the lead, acting as a screen, would prevent induced false signals.
In my opinion any dating will have to come from the insulation material rather than from the use of lead sheathing.

 

[Anonymous]

Geoff, Just seen your message, the last time I saw
single lead cable it was in use for a two way circuit in a period property. This was an amazingly large semi, belonging to a Trawler Owner, in this house you could see every transition, Gas to Electric lighting and solid wire systems (for summoning the
Whisky and Soda and the rest) replaced by ornate electric bell - pushes ----- Fascinatingly, there were
many under floor bell - cranks and wait for it ---- a
two - way mechanical (surface) bell - crank with a
beautiful brass ROSE covering the levers up.
I guard this jealously, because I'll find someone one day hopefully, who will tell me if that's how we get the term 'Ceiling rose'

 

[Anonymous]

Hampton, didn't know that, nowadays I only go to B&Q when I feel like a cross country hike, why on earth don't they make smaller ones like Homebase?
Was it you that said about PVC and the 70's? --- Not right I'm afraid --- I was using PVC/ PVC in the late 50's. All in all a very interesting 'thread' if you'll pardon the pun. Our friends lead cable sounds like BICC to me but what do I know?

 

[Anonymous]

In 1948 two cable companies came together. One was called British Insulated Cables and the other was called Callendar's Cables (Named after the founder who I think was called Tom Callendar). These two were named imaginatively Bristish Insulated and Callendar's Cables, bot surprisingly abbreviated to B.I.C.C.. I think it was then in the 60's or 70's that this company bought the construction company Balfour Beatty and as this was not a cable maker then name ofd the company was regarded by some as not appropriate, so with a further flash of inspiration the company was re-named again to BICC.
PVC has been around for some time, and it wasn't me that mentioned the 1970s as a possible date for these cables. However on looking back through the thread, I think what was actually dated to that time was a standardisation of specification.

 

[Anonymous]

I've heard the huge wooden reels that mains underground cables are wound on to referred to as "callendars". Is that the right term or is it a generic adaptation of the manufacturer's name - like "hoover"?

 

[Anonymous]

I had not heard that before. It is possible that there is a link there because Callendar's were a campany that were into heavy duty high voltage cables and so it might well have been a case of "get the callender". There is an issue of the spelling. One method of producing sheets of material if to roll it through a pair of rollers (like a mangle) and these are also referred to as callenders(ars) and so a large cylindrical object could be a callendar(er). Only postulating (is there a word ante-ulating?)