Dating a cottage

[FCB]

Hi All,

New to this, so hope you don't mind supplying any info which may have already been covered before!

Basically, I'm in the process of buying a (cob) cottage here in Cornwall (hopefully we'll be completing very soon). What I'm trying to do is get some clues as to how old it is from a few features - it could be anywhere from early 1600s to late 1700's!

One particular aspect which might give more away than anything else are the windows.

(a) they are on one side of the house only (facing south). Only four in number.
(b) they are simple horizontal sash (whether they replaced another type at some point I don't yet know)

Does these give anything away?

Any thoughts gratefully received.

Christian

 

[Moo]

As ever, a photo or two would help.

 

[FCB]

Hi Moo,

Alas, don't have any to hand at the moment. But I'll see what I can do sometime soon.

Just wondering if windows on only one side of a property (especially south facing) were indicative of a specific period.

Christian

 

[MdB]

(If you looking at houses in Cornwall then this site is very useful. The post code search works down to individual houses and you can zoom down to approx 1:5000. Ignore the blurb and just press I accept)

Can't help you with house ages though...

 

[Carol]

Often the lack of windows on a particular side pointed to servants accommodation adjacent to a larger house. The employer didn't want his servants looking onto his garden or property. Are you near to a grander residence? Or possibly a dairy where north facing windows only would keep a building cool. Why not visit your local Record office and inspect their tithe maps for more information.

 

[elm]

Don't know your local geography, but maybe most of the wind and weather hits the side with no windows?

 

[elm]

Sorry, just realised that was speculating why and not when .....

 

[FCB]

Often the lack of windows on a particular side pointed to servants accommodation adjacent to a larger house.

Hi Carol,

That's an interesting point, but I think this is pretty much a standalone cottage (it's close to the centre of a village and would have originally been in fields - suspect it was built as a tenant farmers place).

I wonder whether it had something to do with window tax? Or maybe that facing south meant there would be more warmth and light coming in? My query was that perhaps this practice could be nailed down to a particular period.

What I am told, though, is that John Wesley is supposed to have stayed there (which puts it mid to late seventeenth at the latest).

Christian

 

[FCB]

Don't know your local geography, but maybe most of the wind and weather hits the side with no windows?

Hi Elm,

As with all of the UK it's predominantly south west. But the cottage is fairly sheltered in comparison to the rest of the village anyway.

Christian

 

[NT]

What I am told, though, is that John Wesley is supposed to have stayed there (which puts it mid to late seventeenth at the latest).

Only if true.

NT

 

[Maris]

Busy man, John Wesley.

If the wall with no windows is in a cob wall, the windows might have been blocked and rendered over with little to show that they were ever there..
If you haven't looked already, http://www.old-maps.co.uk might show you if there were once other buildings overlooking your house (maps from c1880). Or if there was a passageway or track that might have had the same effect.
Or blocked windows might be as a result of window tax (1693-1851).
Date-wise, if its as early as you think then it could be listed; you'll find the date, and possibly the reason for the window-less wall, by reading the listing description.

Horizontal sashes in Cornwall date from early C18th. I don't know what they would have replaced, if the building is earlier. Possibly just wooden shutters?

 

[biffvernon]

Horizontal sashes in Cornwall date from early C18th. I don't know what they would have replaced, if the building is earlier. Possibly just wooden shutters?

That's an interesting fact. Can you point me in the direction of evidence for it - I don't know much about windows in Cornwall. The earliest reference that I have to a horizontal sliding sash is from South Yorkshire dated at 1705. If yours is 1704 we'll have to rename the 'Yorkshire Sash' as the 'Cornish Sash'.

 

[FCB]

What I am told, though, is that John Wesley is supposed to have stayed there (which puts it mid to late seventeenth at the latest).

Only if true.

NT

Hi NT,

From the evidence I have (which I have no reason to doubt) he did.

Christian

 

[FCB]

Horizontal sashes in Cornwall date from early C18th. I don't know what they would have replaced, if the building is earlier. Possibly just wooden shutters?

That's an interesting fact. Can you point me in the direction of evidence for it - I don't know much about windows in Cornwall. The earliest reference that I have to a horizontal sliding sash is from South Yorkshire dated at 1705. If yours is 1704 we'll have to rename the 'Yorkshire Sash' as the 'Cornish Sash'.

I have come across information which suggests an argument as to who had them first, Yorkshire or Cornwall.

From my limited knowledge I would imagine that if they replaced anything they would have been small mullioned windows.

Christian

 

[David Q]

Many of the older houses in our village have no windows on the weather side. Living 800 feet high in Wales I can understand this. It is likely that the builders knew which way the wind blows. In upland regions like N Wales you can often spot the oldest houses by how well positioned they are in relation to shelter. The absence of windows would generally point to an early date before windows became cheap enough to use throughout.

 

[Maris]

For Biff & Christian:
I found the date via Hugh Lander from his book the House Restorer's Guide. Theres also a useful line in his 'Dos & Don't's' book:
'The Yorkshire or Cornish horizontal sliding sash window is often found in the more cottagey type of building. Has character and dates from early 18th C.'

 

[Maris]

A thought just occurred to me. John Wesley was around in the C18th. I think he died in 1791 (I must check that though!). So as a way of dating the house, you'd still only be looking at the 1700s, not 1600s, if indeed he had visited the place.
Which ties in nicely with the windows.

 

[Penners]

The earliest reference that I have to a horizontal sliding sash is from South Yorkshire dated at 1705. If yours is 1704 we'll have to rename the 'Yorkshire Sash' as the 'Cornish Sash'.

Or maybe the "Essex Sash"? Our first period property was in Ridgewell, just south of the Essex/Suffolk border. It was part of an old hall house, dated to the 15th century.

We had a horizontal slider. Obviously not original in a building of that age, but still pretty old. Sorry I can't date it.

Biff - if I remember (and that's a big "if"!) I'll get you a photo when I'm next passing the house.

 

[FCB]

A thought just occurred to me. John Wesley was around in the C18th. I think he died in 1791 (I must check that though!). So as a way of dating the house, you'd still only be looking at the 1700s, not 1600s, if indeed he had visited the place.
Which ties in nicely with the windows.

Hi Maris,

Thanks for the useful info. Much appreciated.

I think in the context of Mr Wesley, all I can certainly conclude was that it was standing before he died. It could, of course, have been built well before he was born!

At the moment, though, I'm beginning to think early 1700s. I will certainly try and take a few pics of various features and post them when I get a chance.

Christian

 

[biffvernon]

not original

And I've seen uPVC in a medieval building but that wasn't original either, as far as I know.
Still, I'd love to see a picture.