Damp & chimney relining - advice

[ellchester]

We have a damp area in the bedroom of our cottage. The surveyor said when we bought the property that it may be linked with the chimney and have the appearance of damp - a brown stain on the ceiling - tar and hydroscopic salts are coming through the face of the chimney breast and he has suggested replastering. It seems to be spreading - his survey was a year ago.

We have had the chimney checked and the roofer said the flashing was fine - although he replaced a cracked tile. We have had two damp companies out - one said it was an old leak, probably when the old chimney came down and the new one was replaced and the area should be replastered. He said it wasn't an ongoing problem. The other one said it was an ongoing problem and teh whole needed stripping and the room all stripping and replastering and quoted £2,000.


I am stuck what to do and have considered it may be something to do with the chimney - possibly not being lined. Any ideas how much to have someone reline it or where I should try next. Part of the salts and staining has spread to the bathroom next door and we are having a new one fitted in July so we are trying to have it resolved before then.

Rob

 

[chuckey]

I too have the same problem, I re-plastered an upstairs chimney breast five years ago and tar stains are spreading out. Susequent to the re-plastering, the top of the chimney has been rebuilt and the flue lined with a flexi liner. Now de-facto there is a cavity between the inside skin and the outside skin, I can't see how water is getting in, so I just reckon thats its the original tar and eventually it will stop spreading. I was just going to hide it with a stain blocking paint before papering.
Frank

 

[Mark]

Do you use the chimneys or not ?

Presumably lime plaster in the rooms in question? and not plasterboard?

A bungalow in our village has just been quoted £800 PLUS materials to fit a SS liner (and the estimate for the cost of the liner was 500!), so ask around there are some silly quotes.

fluesystems, hotline chimneys are reasonable prices if you want to diy

 

[shelli]

we just had the usual worries about whether chimneys need lining. One guy came out and told us that yes both our chimneys needed lining etc and quoted £2000 ish per chimney (I suspect when he saw the scaffolding up he thought we were up for big bills!)

The next guy - a specialist from our local fire surround/stoves place came and looked and said we don't need to spend a penny on lining - the chimneys have been regularly used over last 200 years - he said v few chimneys over 100 years old ever need lining due to build up of deposits inside.

If you don't use the fire then anything in there won't dry out of course

Why not use a jazzy gold paper over the chimney breast or repaint with something to inhibit stain in nice rich colour.

 

[ellchester]

Do you use the chimneys or not ?

Presumably lime plaster in the rooms in question? and not plasterboard?

 

[ellchester]

No - it is not lime plaster, just normal. They were quoting for stripping all of the walls, as they seem to have had some spongey type material placed on the walls, not plasterboard, and wallpapered over.


The patch can't really be papered over as it isn't coming out of the chimney breast itself, but it is manifesting itself on the ceilling. It isn't black like I would expect damp to be, but a light brown and when I have stripped the old paper off the ceiling it is quite sticky and slimy. The fire in the bedroom is boarded over but the one downstairs using that chimney is a wood burner and is used durimg the winter. The previous owners obviously kept papering patches over the problem are but we are looking for a permenant solution that doesn't look tacky.

It seems so difficult to find a honest straight forward answer from tradesmen who come to quote - we have moved from Somerset where we had built up a portfolio of honest competent tradesman. We have moved to a very rural area with few neighbours and don't know anyone locally for recommendations, so we are taking pot luck from the Yellow Pages.

 

[Nemesis]

I have a feeling that the brown sticky patch on the ceiling could be from the chimney - a leaking one - and maybe it's tar from the wood.

Often a weak spot is where a flue goes through the void between the ceiling and the floor above, and at times smokeleaks into this.

I'm concerned abot the advice that chimneys don't need lining - they do, it's building regs when a stove is installed.

How is your stove flue put into the chimney flue?

With regard to spongey stuff on walls - is it polystyrene paper? If so try stripping off before considering anything else.

 

[Mark]

No - it is not lime plaster, just normal. They were quoting for stripping all of the walls, as they seem to have had some spongey type material placed on the walls, not plasterboard, and wallpapered over.

but presumably plasterboard underneath all that (on the ceiling) ?

The patch can't really be papered over as it isn't coming out of the chimney breast itself, but it is manifesting itself on the ceilling. It isn't black like I would expect damp to be, but a light brown and when I have stripped the old paper off the ceiling it is quite sticky and slimy. The fire in the bedroom is boarded over but the one downstairs using that chimney is a wood burner and is used durimg the winter. The previous owners obviously kept papering patches over the problem are but we are looking for a permanent solution that doesn't look tacky.

Damp can be brown - its only black when you get mold on it.

If it were me I would strip back a bit and get a look at the inside of the ceiling. Could the ridge tiles be loose? how is the pointing on the chimney?

Is the unused flue in the chimney capped?

 

[ellchester]

The chimney is properly capped - I have had a roofer replace a cracked ridge tile, otherwise it is ok. The chimney pointing seems fine, a roofer checked the pointing and flashing as it is only four years old - a replacement as I'm told the other one fell down! I"ve just had a chimney specialist around and he doesn't think it's tar - he said the chimney will need relining at some point in the future but he couldn't guarantee it would fix the problem. He quoted about £1,200 but didn't want me to go ahead thinking he could cure the patch as he wasn't convinced it was tar. I will post a picture of the area later. The spongey stuff on the walls - I'm not sure what it is - it's like some sort of lining which I take it has been used to hide the cracks on the walls due to the age of the plaster. Thanks for all of your advice so far - it's difficult to know what to do with this one...

 

[ellchester]

How is your stove flue put into the chimney flue?

Not very well according to the chimney guy. He says the metal flue seems quite loose inside teh chimney. We had a soot box fit about six months ago and he said it was badly done and hasn't been sealed properly he said a registered chimney sweep was unlikley to sweep it and provide a certificate as they couldn't get all of the soot out. He said if it stays like it is there will be a chimney fire eventually and insurance would be unlikely to pay out if we didn't have a sweeps certificate. Not my week so far.

 

[Andrew Bodenham]

For what its worth we had a load of damp in our gable wall due to poorly installed clay flue liners acting as a conduit for rain and condensation. The lime plaster was stained, sodden and generally detached.

First step was to get both flues lined, and the pots rebedded. A woodburner now runs on one flue, the other one is unused at present.
Second step was to hack off all the damp plaster back to the stone before re-rendering and re-plastering.
Third step was repointing chimney stack and replacing flashings etc. as part of a complete re-roof.
Finally, we cranked up the woodburner and ensured good ventilation.

No more damp patches.

In my experience with old houses you need a belt, braces and baler-twine approach to problems like this. Its a rare day when you can accurately pinpoint one single cause for a problem like a damp patch.

PS Your stoves will go much better with a lined flue, they're easy to sweep and much less likely to be a fire hazard. One of the best investments we've made.

 

[lindy]

Hi

I am just getting my two chimneys reinstated which involves on one, rebuilding the internal flues and lining it, and on the other, just lining it and rebuilding the chimney stack. I got a chimney engineer out to look at both chimneys and tell me exactly what needed doing so they remain in good condition, work correctly and meet building regs (he is hetas registered so will self-certify the work). He gave me wider advice, as well as advising me on what lining I needed. I have to say his advice was invaluable. I dont have any damp but he would have been well qualified to advise if we did have Im sure. I got his details from here:

http://www.nace.org.uk/

Hope this helps

Lindy

 

[chuckey]

6" double skinned stainless steel line = £23/ft, clay pipe line = £10/Ft. The stainless comes in rolls at at 6' incremental lengths (24',30' etc). My cottage flue cost ~ £500 for the liner alone, I did the rest. Clay comes in one foot lengths which means you have to knock holes in the outside skin every 4' or so up the wall to install each piece and it won't go round bends.
frank

 

[Mark]

SS liner £23/ft ? I paid less than that per meter. and yes, double skin and the correct grade for solid fuel

 

[chuckey]

B*****r me, I did a quick check on the web and there is certainly liner available at your price, but the one I saw had Grade 316 SS inner and outer skins, my one is 316 outer skin and 329 inner skin (from memory). For 24' of flue , one termination kit and a flue pipe it set me back £550. Now perhaps the Grade 329 is a better grade, but at that price, I would have had the gold option, it might have been cheaper.
Frank