Daft question - gloss paint?

[childrenanddogs]

Hi all,

The next job on our ever so long to do list is to get the windows, porch and front door refurbished. We've had some quotes and a couple of the carpenters who have come to look and quote have mentioned gloss paint - for some reason, the thought of my beautiful sash windows etc covered in white gloss made me shudder. Am I being silly, or is gloss not very 'in keeping' with a Georgian farmhouse?

We've always used gloss paint before on previous houses, but I just don't think it will work on this building, although one guy said it's the best way to weatherproof the windows etc. I was just thinking of a matt eggshell type paint specifically for outdoor use, but I don't want to choose the wrong thing. I was also planning on using matt paints for the interior as gloss just seems wrong me to there too.

Sorry for the daft question, no doubt it's the first of many! Thanks all.

 

[robgil]

Its down to personal taste , I too prefer matt to gloss.
Are you getting the carpenter to do the painting then?

 

[Schoolmarm]

LINSEED OIL PAINTS!!

 

[childrenanddogs]

Nope, it'll be me doing the painting unfortunately, just not got the budget to pay somebody else to do it.

*Tootles off to Google Linseed Oil Paints*...........

 

[AMc]

There are plenty of non-glossy exterior paints that will give a good finish. IMHO the 'trades' generally work on slapping either builders emulsion or trade gloss on everything and talk in such terms but providing the wood is in good condition there's no obligation to use those paints.

If you decide to take a look at Linseed Oil based paints e.g. Holkham Paint then try and get your carpenters to use timber that hasn't been dosed in insecticide it's not necessary. Linseed paints are reputed to have great longevity and finish but they also require longer drying times and potentially more coats than a "standard gloss".
http://www.holkhamlinseedpaints.co.uk/how-to-use/frequently-answered-questions.html

I was keen to avoid repainting but wasn't able to get linseed paints to suit my building schedule so ended up using a Swedish oil based paint from Beckers which has a half gloss finish.
This is the suppliers (post 2010 VOC ban) alternative
http://www.paint-paper.co.uk/Paints-Stains/Alcro/Outdoor-Painting/BestA-TA-ckfA-rg-TrA-3-litre-for-exterior-wood-facades/prod_799.html

 

[JoceAndChris]

Definitely avoid gloss in your lovely home. It isn't the right look - and avoid brilliant whites too.

I think that 200 years ago paint started off shiny and ended up matt. But the modern gloss never mellows like that.
If you google linseed paint on here, you'll find plenty of divided discussion on the topic. Personally, I think the rubbing down of all the old glossed wood to create a breathing finish is unrealistic.

 

[wobs]

Personally, I think the rubbing down of all the old glossed wood to create a breathing finish is unrealistic.

Its certainly a lot of work, but very rewarding.
I am nearing the completion of my bay window, after stripping (with mostly paint stripper, but also heat gun) the whole lot of gloss and stubborn undercoat. It had an aluminium primer which the stripper would not touch, so I rubbed it down to bare wood (with a decent dust mask!).

This and the upstairs windows and gutter etc all require one more coat of linseed paint, but it took most of last summer.

The gutter meanwhile needs further attention, but that's another story for a new thread.

Still get people stopping to chat when I work at the front of the house.

 

[JoceAndChris]

That sounds hard, but rewarding work wobs! I do admire you for doing it, it sounds kinder to the wood to have the linseed system, by far. This will sound like an excuse but I'm fairly certain I wouldn't be able to do that much preparation of the wood without damaging some of the nice old glass, I say this because I've had a go and as soon as I start attacking the old putty the glass cracks. So I'm currently at an impasse with the ten large sashes, three doors and 8 smaller windows, and like the OP I don't really know what to do. What I'd like to do is pay someone to rub them all down and linseed oil paint them, and whilst they're at it draught proof the lot and splice out and repair the rotten sections. But this, I think, would be £££££ and I think it unlikely I'd find someone prepared to use linseed paint.

What will probably happen is that I'll repaint them all myself with FnB matt eggshell and over the years spread out the cost of professional draught proofing, as it's not something I want to tackle alone.

 

[michael]

I’ll probably be castigated here but I’ve just tried using Dulux Weathershield exterior satin finish on my windows and I’m quite pleased with it. Its water based so easy to apply, easy to clean brushes, touch dry in about an hour and totally dry in six hours and its designed for the job i.e. exterior woodwork.
Apparently an undercoat is not required but I like to use one as a kind of liquid filler on the imperfections after rubbing down and piming. Dull semi satin finish is also quite good.
Only drawback, it’s a bit pricy but worth it with the work it saves.
It seems to me that most ‘modern’ paints are now being produced as water based products.

 

[Lime]

Try linseed oil paint.
It will look after the wood far better than any modern paint.
If after a few years you dislike it for any reason you can paint directly over it.

Modern paints are just thick skins of plastic.

 

[AMc]

It seems to me that most ‘modern’ paints are now being produced as water based products.

The major manufacturers have moved away from oil based paints as the EU directive 2004/42/EC on Volatile Organic Compounds used as solvents in oil based paints make it difficult to make the fast drying paints we've been used to. VOC are an environmental pollutant and as most of us know they're not that pleasant to breathe, I think the impact on a domestic user isn't that significant but I can imagine 30 years as a professional decorator would be different?
http://www.dulux.co.uk/advice/questions/faq/faq_051.jsp

There are some oil based paints left - e.g. Linseed paint - but these don't contain VOCs

 

[childrenanddogs]

Thanks all, lots of good tips and glad I'm not the only one that thinks gloss would somehow look wrong!

 

[biffvernon]

Linseed oil paint by Alback of Sweden, imported by Holkham paints.

No brainer.

 

[vicky whitworth]

Have to fess up to thinking about Dulux Weathershield Satin for exterior woodwork for my windows and doors, most of which are already painted and would need masses of rubbing down. But I don't think the Weathershield can be mixed to different colours from the colour card. I just can't seem to find an external satin that's hard wearing. I used F&B exterior paint about two years ago and it's peeling badly already. Anyone tried Little Greene exterior paint?

 

[Feltwell]

You don't have to rub down to bare wood before you use linseed paint - it's just that you won't get the benefits of the oil on the wood. So long as the paint underneath is sound and does not part company with the wood then it should still last. So you could take the iffy bits back to bare wood and leave the sound bits as they are. Personally I find a hot air gun with a decent scraper to be much better than trying to rub down to bare wood with abrasive paper. It may be tempting to use a blow torch but be very, very careful, especially near the roofline. I just wouldn't use one anywhere near there.

When we took our roof off we found loads of old birds nests that we were completely unaware of. The roofer told us he'd done 2 big jobs in the last year where professional decorators had set the roof on fire using a blowtorch - the old, dry nests make perfect kindling and it only takes 1 spark to reach them and they will smoulder away for hours before finally catching light. Any old house where the roof has not been touched in a while is bound to have some old nests somewhere, we found plenty.

I spent ages going back to bare wood on all our roofline timberwork, including some fancy gable end timbers, before painting with linseed paint. That was 4 years ago and it still looks great, except for one small area where the timber was a bit iffy to begin with and with hindsight I should have done a different repair. The rotten areas that I filled with linseed putty have all lasted perfectly so far, and this is on a very high up & exposed position that gets full sun for half of the day. Had I used a modern "plastic" filler & paint then from previous experience I would have expected it to start failing by now.

Plus points for linseed paint - it seems to last really well, it has good green credentials, it's very nice stuff to work with (once you've got the hang of it not being like "normal" modern paint), future maintenance and re-coating should be quick & easy providing you don't want to change the colour and it smells lovely - it's the only paint I've ever used where you finish the day with very soft hands that smell nice!

Minus points - it takes forever to dry, at least 24 hours between coats I found. Filling deep holes with linseed putty works well but again takes ages to dry (luslack & chalk for small holes & areas is quite quick though). You have to get used to using the stuff - it is different to modern paints, you put it on very very thinly. I found I had problems with paint runs until I got used to this. It does seem to retain dirt a bit more than modern paints, I've noticed this on some horizontal surfaces. It does fade slightly over time as well.

Note that I don't put cost as a negative - it is expensive per litre but a tin goes a long, long way and don't forget the savings come re-decoration time. If you were paying someone else to do the work then yes, it would work out very expensive initially.

So for me it was balancing the time taken now to do all the proper preparation and the long painting process versus the benefits of keeping the wood in better condition than if I used modern paints and the saving in time when it comes to future re-decorating. On balance I'm keeping with the linseed paint and just restoring my windows slowly, and putting up with having a two-tone house in the meantime!

On new, bare wood to me there is absolutely no contest - a coat of heated linseed oil then linseed paint. I think you'd be mad to do anything else, especially if you can do the painting inside in the dry before fitting the item. My new driveway gates will be getting just this treatment in my garage in the very near future. I'm going to allow a couple of weeks after the last coat of paint for it to harden before I fit them though! If I was in more of a hurry I guess I could do the last coat in-situ after fitting and the rest in the garage in advance.

 

[Feltwell]

I'm fairly certain I wouldn't be able to do that much preparation of the wood without damaging some of the nice old glass, I say this because I've had a go and as soon as I start attacking the old putty the glass cracks.

Joce, I've found no problems whilst using a heat gun so long as you are careful. Get yourself a piece of aluminium sheet or similar - say about 10" x 6" - and hold that against the edge of the glass at an angle to keep the heat away. Heat a bit of the wood with the gun, put the gun and your shield down, scrape a bit of paint off and repeat. I found it's not as long winded as it sounds, you can make good progress. Why do you need to attack the putty? I'd leave it if it's sound and just paint over whatever paint is on the putty. Old loose or cracked putty does needs to come out and be replaced, but the job is much easier if you get yourself a proper glaziers hacking knife, they are not expensive. You hit the back of the blade (gently!) with a hammer, always tapping down along the line of the glass and never "into" the glass - with care you won't break the glass.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PUTTY-HACKING...Material_Paint_Varnish_MJ&hash=item230e36cd8b

As for draught proofing, that really is much much simpler than it sounds. I'd say it's an ideal beginners job - the carpentry skills needed to do it are minimal, with the exception of routing out the groove in the mid-rail. You could always leave that or didn't you say your father-in-law was fairly handy at woodwork? I think you may be able to get mid-rail seals now that don't require a routed groove, not sure how they look though.

If you do get someone in then be careful, the standard of some of the "professional" outfits isn't very high and some of them use some not very sympathetic materials. For example, with the parting bead you can get 2 types - this sort, which I don't think is very sympathetic at all but is quick & easy to fit:-

http://www.mightonproducts.com/section/66/1/weather-proofing-system

Or this type, a bit longer to fit but much nicer in appearance (Reddiseals sell an unprimed version BTW):-

http://www.mightonproducts.com/section/41/1/timber-parting-bead

I really do think that anyone who is even mildly practical could draughtproof a sash window successfully if they put their mind to it.

 

[AMc]

Hmmm wish I'd known about that parting bead when we refurbished the back windows. It would have done a better job.
Next time I guess

 

[citizensmith]

I am about to start mine and on our friendly builders advice will have a test go with stuff called Supadeck from Sadolin - he thinks its excellent and dries very fast.

http://www.sadolin.co.uk/homeowner/products/garden/superdecopaquewoodprotection/description

 

[AMc]

I've not heard of it before so I had a look. PDF datasheet
From the data sheet its an "Alkyd / Acrylic resin blend dispersed in water". So not that unusual.
Given the name I found "Sadolin Superdec is not suitable for use on floors or decking." mildly ironic
If I'm reading that right it wouldn't be suitable for a conventional putty glazed, sash window.
My emphasis...

Glazing: The backs of new glazing beads, end grains and rebates should be brought to a finish with Sadolin Superdec prior to
fixing. Joinery to be coated with Sadolin Opaque systems should be glazed using a suitable sealant. The use of
linseed oil putty or modified, non-setting compounds are not recommended in conjunction with our wood protection
systems. To confirm compatibility, please consult the manufacturer of the relevant glazing material. Silicone glazing
materials should only be applied upon completion of the finishing coats.

 

[citizensmith]

Thanks for the heads up re: putty, I doubt that's a big problem for me on ancient putty that has long ago lost its linseed oil content. I might just whip round the edges of the glazing with something more suitable first though to be on the safe side. Dave (my builder) loves it because he says it is easy to apply, covers extremely well, looks good, lasts well and drys very fast so I can reassemble sashes without fear of "sticking" them together.