Curtilage

[skier-hughes]

Wanting to do things right and having read on here that a greenhouse of a certain size would need planning permission I thought I'd check with my planning dept.
Nothing on the web-site except a pre-planning enquiry form.
4 pages later and two land plans, showing where the house is and where the greehouse is to go I sit back and await a reply.

5 days later I get a letter saying they will try to reply to me in 4 weeks.

I phone and am told that it would be sooner.

13 days later I get a reply which says, from my pre-application they cannot tell if the greenhouse is to be in the curtilage or not, so until this has been resolved they cannot tell me if I do in fact need planning permission.

I phone, the guy dealing with it is off. The guy I speak to tells me there is no definition of curtilage, as it differs from house to house and each has to be decided on individually.

He tells me he cannot get out my paperwork, I'm going to have to wait another week until my orignal guy comes back off holiday, then he can tell me - maybe!!!

I wish I'd just put it up. Now I'm B*********** as I've let them know my intentions!!!!!!

Graham

 

[shelli]

Oh dear Graham,

Looks like your tomatoes are stuffed for this year then!

Nolites Te Illegitimates Carborundorum! etc

LOL Shelli X

 

[Nemesis]

I'm rather puzzled though - why do you need to worry about curtilage?

I think what is relevant is surely size and relationship to the house and the road?

 

[MdB]

I got a similar question answered yesterday within a few minutes by visiting my local planning department. As I just need to know whether or not I needed to worry about planning, I took some drawings with me and they were able to quickly show me the relavent planning rules.

As long as I keep within the rules, I don't need planning. However, this doesn't give me a bit of paper to prove this. If want a bit of paper to say planning is not required, then they can provide me with a Certificate of something or another for £67.50 (if I remember right) and gave me the forms to fill out.

If your local planning department allows visits then I would go and see them, mine was very very helpful.

 

[MdB]

I'm rather puzzled though - why do you need to worry about curtilage?

I think what is relevant is surely size and relationship to the house and the road?

Curtilage came up in my visit yesterday. The rules for a porch for example are that it has to be more than 2m from the curtilage of the property to not require planning. The curilage is not the same as the boundary of a property. In my house, I have a front wall which is a metre or so from the edge of the land I own. The curtilage is defined by this wall and not the boundary. When I asked planning if I could increase the curtilage by moving the wall, the lady in planning laughed which I took to mean yes.

 

[Nemesis]

Curtilage means something else when applied to listed buildings!

 

[skier-hughes]

Visiting won't help until the guy who is dealing with it gets back, but hopefully a phone call will sort it out, unless we can't agree on what is and isn't curtilage.

According to the letter he sent, curtilage isn't the boundary, it does relate to what is often known as "the garden" but not specifically.

As we have 2 acres and the greeenhouse is not very close to the house, which would put it in the shade of lots of trees, it looks like it may well fall out of curtilage.

Permitted development is allowed within curtilage, but not out of it.

I suppose a farmer with 600 acres could say he was using permitted develpment some miles away from the house!!!

Graham

 

[MdB]

Curtilage means something else when applied to listed buildings!

cur·ti·lage (kûr'tl-ĭj) pronunciation
n. Law.

The enclosed area immediately surrounding a house or dwelling.

[Middle English, from Old French courtillage, from courtil, diminutive of cort, court. See court.]

How is it different for listed buildings?

 

[Flyfisher]

Permitted development is allowed within curtilage, but not out of it.

I suppose a farmer with 600 acres could say he was using permitted develpment some miles away from the house!!!

I believe agricultural planning is much more lenient than residential, so a farmer might be able to put the greehouse anywhere anyway.

Unless you are planning to invest a lot of time, effort and money in a dedicated base why not just put the thing up where you want it? The worst that can happen is that you'll have to move it. In practice, given your position and amount of land, I doubt anyone will notice, or care, whatever you do.

 

[skier-hughes]

Unfortunately the land where it is to go is overlooked by several people up on the main road.
Admittedly at the distance it will look very small.

We had to go thorugh the is it for personal use or commercial already, as the house used to be the farmhouse.....

 

[Nemesis]

Curtilage where listed buildings is concerned is a very complex issue and can involve ancillary buildings not always enclosed within the land surrounding the house!

There is law and there is case law and there is interpretation of it all.

It's a legal minefield.

 

[shelli]

It's a greenhouse! i.e. Its glass - they will be able to see through it!

Why is it a probem?!
:?

 

[skier-hughes]

Why is it a probem?!
:?

Exactly!!!!

My problem now though is becuase I've told the council of my intentions, if I do put it up and people complain they'll no doubt do something about it.

I'm having a cup of tea and going to wait for a week to see what he has to say.

 

[Penners]

That'll larn yer!

Next time, leave your can-of-worms opener in the drawer!

 

[alice]

My favorite adage...."Better to ask forgiveness than ask permission".

alice

 

[shelli]

My favorite adage...."Better to ask forgiveness than ask permission".

alice

I heard the very same thing on a TV show last night - how true - I wish I had the nerve!! - fortunately for us my Other Half lives by this adage

 

[skier-hughes]

Wella bit of research has brought up that curtilage differs on house proportion amongst other things, so a small one up one down terrace house in city centre wouldn't be expected to have a 2 acre garden, but a large farmhouse in the country would.

I'm laying foundations later today!!!