Curtilage / planning question

[DaveBlair855]

All,

We have a GII listed building with outbuildings, and about an acre of land to play around with. We are thinking about adding a small timber framed summerhouse or similar to the existing greenhouse and sheds.

We know from our purchase that the existing buildings come under the protection of the Listing as curtilage of the extant property, but does anyone know;
1 - Whether we need planning permission to put a new structure up? I know outbuildings under a certain size do not need permission in usual circumstances and we are not planning anything that exceeds these size constraints.
2 - If we actually get the building up, does it automatically become listed or do we have to apply to have it added to the existing buildings? You can see how this would effect alterations/decoration/repair in the long term.

We have tried the .gov planning portal, but have given up in disgust, and have also sought the guidance of our local planning officer only to be helpfully told "it depends".

Any thoughts, experiences or observations gratefully received.

Dave

 

[Pford75]

Dave

Some professionals will be along shortly to give you the detailed facts...but here is my understanding.

Aside from any question of Listed Building Consent (which others can advise upon more knowledgeably than I), you may require planning permission. This sort of structure would be covered under permitted development rights for most buildings, but the recent change in planning legislation removed these 'permitted rights' from listed buildings.

My understanding of your second question is that if you are granted permission to make a change to a listed building, then that change becomes part of the building and subject to all the LBC protection (eg. My wall which was demolished by a tree...was rebuilt with LBC...is now subject to the same controls as the previous wall)

 

[hoppy]

about 2 years ago i built a rather large "Shed" at the back of my property, Our local CO officer informed me that as it was of "Timber" construction it was NOT classed as a permenant structure (easily demountable) apparently, and therefore i did not require permission.

 

[Pford75]

Planning regulations changed last year

 

[Gareth Hughes]

All,

We have a GII listed building with outbuildings, and about an acre of land to play around with. We are thinking about adding a small timber framed summerhouse or similar to the existing greenhouse and sheds.

We know from our purchase that the existing buildings come under the protection of the Listing as curtilage of the extant property, but does anyone know;
1 - Whether we need planning permission to put a new structure up? I know outbuildings under a certain size do not need permission in usual circumstances and we are not planning anything that exceeds these size constraints.
2 - If we actually get the building up, does it automatically become listed or do we have to apply to have it added to the existing buildings? You can see how this would effect alterations/decoration/repair in the long term.

We have tried the .gov planning portal, but have given up in disgust, and have also sought the guidance of our local planning officer only to be helpfully told "it depends".

Any thoughts, experiences or observations gratefully received.

Dave

1. Yes you do
2. No it doesn't, and no you don't

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Dave

Some professionals will be along shortly to give you the detailed facts...but here is my understanding.

Aside from any question of Listed Building Consent (which others can advise upon more knowledgeably than I), you may require planning permission. This sort of structure would be covered under permitted development rights for most buildings, but the recent change in planning legislation removed these 'permitted rights' from listed buildings.

My understanding of your second question is that if you are granted permission to make a change to a listed building, then that change becomes part of the building and subject to all the LBC protection (eg. My wall which was demolished by a tree...was rebuilt with LBC...is now subject to the same controls as the previous wall)

In your case, ISTR that the wall is listed in its own right, rather than just as curtilage to your house, so any alterations to the wall itself become part of the listed building. To count as "curtilage listed" a structure needs to have "formed part of the land" since 1948 (the date of the first effective legislation on the subject).

 

[Pford75]

Thanks for the helpful clarification Gareth - you are correct with regard to my wall.

The point relanning permission is a key one and something which I believe most householders are not aware of (I certainly wasn't until it was discussed by more expert opinion such as yourself on this forum). 'Permitted development' became such a universally spoken term that I believe there must be a real risk that householders (perhaps advised by duplicitous or ignorant salespeople/builders) will undertake work without PP