Curtain rail brackets.

[plasticpigeon]

Hello. I suspect this might be a question for Joce! I have ordered some shiny brass curtain brackets and need to screw them to the window, or at least I'm guessing to the the window frame. I have taken 3 pics of what I imagine are possible places, does anyone know what is best/traditional place??? Thanks.

 

[LadyArowana]

It would be helpful to have a view of the whole window and picture rail. The first one looks best of the 3 to me, but it might be even better to put it higher up.

 

[plasticpigeon]

Ok, I was hoping to screw it into woodwork and avoid drilling holes in the wall, I hate drilling holes in the wall!

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Into the wall above the window (and set quite a bit wider apart) is the correct location

 

[JoceAndChris]

So sorry plastic pigeon, Gareth is quite right. In houses from the 18th 19th and 20th C - ie good sized sash windows - the curtains should ideally be measured to drop from a pole 5 or so inches below the cornice to then either kiss the floor, or puddle on the floor. That means you measure floor to 5 inches below ceiling for your drop and then add another 40 cm for hem allowances and another whatever you like for the puddle -if you want one - a good puddle length is 20 cm. If your ceilings are very very high then it might be more like a foot below cornice - I've said 5 inches based on my ceilings here which are 9ft.

The space above the window architrave at the top is called the dead light, you want to go high into that for your treatment. The space at the sides of the window is the stack back, again, if you can your curtain wants to sit there in the daytime to maximise the light. So drilling the brackets into the wood isn't any good as the curtain will look skimpy and dumpy. Curtains ought to make a long slender shape for maximum elegance. Of course this all depends on how big the curtains you've bought are...

Ideally, in a formal period room with nice antiques, your pole will be mounted in such a way as to allow a pelmet board to sit in front and 1-2 inches above. The pelmet would then be dressed with swags and tails.


Curtains echo fashion - the piccy G posted is reminiscent of Regency goddessy frocks. The inspiration for 1800 was classical, exotic, diaphanous. Muslins, Greek Key trim, the multiple swag, feature heavily, in the wild colours of the Regrncy - often 2 contrasting plain silks. Later on in the 19th you get heavier, more solid shapes, festoonery echoing the crinoline and the bustle. Chintzes came into fashion, alongside heavy, dark velvets.

Then in the 20th C it all gets very pared down and minimal, to the point that very few period properties have the curtains that their architects would have imagined.

 

[MdB]

Ok, I was hoping to screw it into woodwork and avoid drilling holes in the wall, I hate drilling holes in the wall!

Unless you know your woodwork is very well put up, I would want to fix to the wall. Curtains can be heavy and there is a danger it would pull the woodwork off. If you decide you want to position the support on the woodwork then you could potentially go through and into the wall behind to get a good fixing. Be warned though that there could be a cavity behind which the woodwork is covering up.

 

[plasticpigeon]

Ok. Well my house is a very modest dwelling from around 1900, so would it really have had all the swags pelmets and finery??? In that particular room there is a sloping ceiling that cuts just inches from the top of the window, so going higher isn't too easy there. It would be possible elsewhere though. My ceilings are also 9 ft with the picture rail about level with the top of the window leaving a frieze of around 2 ft above, maybe a little less. I am interested how the Victorian's/Edwardians would have put the brackets up as they didn't have wall plugs back then. I have some very old brackets screwed to the architrave on other windows, I shall post a picture. They are very slim brackets, so look like they could have been for blinds. period photos/drawings of my kind of house seem few and far between!

 

[JoceAndChris]

Don't know what kind of finery your house would have had but remember how cheap labour was. I think it's pretty safe to say that if was occupied by the middle classes they'd have had aspirational tastes, and I'm not sure that curtains were even conceived as being without a top treatment of some kind. It's possible they just made do with blinds. The full treatment is blinds or nets and then curtains with swags and tails in top.

In poor homes there wouldn't have been curtains, or just something makeshift.

The walls had decent sized choggins of wood driven in to give the screws something to grip to, and made good with lime plaster. That's what we've found behind the servants' bells here.

Nice height for your ceilings!

 

[jocelyn plummer]

The correct place for the brackets is above the window, fixed firmly into the wall, regardless of whether you are having swags and tails or not. A deep heading tape with plenty of width to each curtain will look very smart on the pole and rings.

 

[Nigel Watts]

I have fixed this type of curtain bracket to my window architraves and judging by the state of the architraves before I repaired them many other previous occupants had done the same. In the example below I first screwed a piece of timber to the side of the architrave, which is quite deep because of the shutter housing, and then screwed the bracket for the thicker wooden pole onto that, mounting it slightly higher than the top of the architrave. The thinner, brass pole is held by brackets mounted further in and lower down. I was able to get away with this because the top of the window is close to the ceiling and there is extra width to accommodate the internal shutters.

Two poles were needed because of the swag and tail arrangement. The brass pole would have been too low on its own but it works because it is hidden by the swags.

 

[DJH]

That is one very nice room Nigel. I can't imagine anything better than reading a book in front of a fire in a room like that.

 

[MatthewC]

What about a bay window? I've got a rectangular bay which is about two feet deep. The window fills the bay to the sides and top, so the only way of having curtains flush with the window is to put the brackets on the woodwork around the window. Alternatively, would a curtain have been put (with pelmet) outside the bay (which rather renders it pointless!)?

 

[plasticpigeon]

That room does look beautiful. I've been reading a lot, and am starting to think that it is likely that my house might have just had blinds in the windows. This is because of the site linked, and an advert in an old book for venetian blinds in sash windows that look very much like mine and the old bracket arrangement on my other bedroom window.

http://www.1900s.org.uk/1900s-bedroom.htm

I think the brackets on my other bedroom windows look like they are probably for blind or nets, as they are not substantial enough for curtains. The sloping ceiling makes putting brackets higher up a bit tricky, so maybe I should look at venetian blinds. Curtains would be nice too though, to try and keep some heat in. Should I just push the brackets up as high as is practically possible, which is probably with the bottom of the bracket sitting on the picture rail??

 

[plasticpigeon]

Also, as some cheap curtains have been bought for the back room I will have to use them, unless they look awful, but in the rest of the house I'm not sure what kind of material to go for. I would like to try and use material appropriate to the style and status of the house so not too glam but something that looks late Victorian/early Edwardian. I may however not have much of a say in the material anyway!!!!

 

[JoceAndChris]

Oh, sorry to miss this earlier! Yes, highly likely then that there were just blinds and nets, that would make sense. Fascinating link.

I also doubt my house would have had swags and tails as it seems too masculine but it's been fun putting in the full works. You should just do what you like. Hand sewn interlined curtains really warm the place up too. I'd have a look on EBay with searches like antique toile or vintage, or chenille, or velvet. So pleased with the bargain 4 I worked into swags and tails this year, so cheap at £150 for 4 huge curtains with trim!

http://www.periodproperty.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12635&hilit=Dining+room+curtains&start=30

You might like a browse through Marvic, they do lovely historic prints and textiles. Edwardian period was a lot of different stuff - classicism, exotic, Chinoiserie, chintz, small prints, William Morris.

http://www.marvictextiles.co.uk/aphrodite-chestnut_2/

 

[JoceAndChris]

Paisley can also be so lovely

http://www.fabricsandpapers.com/item/view/katmandu-chenille

And have a look at Sanderson Vintage, and Morris and Co Fruit for ideas.

 

[LadyArowana]

You might like a browse through Marvic, they do lovely historic prints and textiles. Edwardian period was a lot of different stuff - classicism, exotic, Chinoiserie, chintz, small prints, William Morris.

http://www.marvictextiles.co.uk/aphrodite-chestnut_2/

To save anyone else the trouble I can report that both "Empire" and "Four Continents" have elephants!

 

[JoceAndChris]

:lol: love Empire, that's what we used for his Lordship's wardrobe.

 

[plasticpigeon]

I've taken people's advice and mounted the rail above the window rather than on the architrave. My other half hates brass but likes antique brass so I had a go at toning the brass down, which seems to have worked quite well. I'm quite happy with the results. I wonder if having the brackets spaced slightly wider apart would would look better, but in this instance they went in just about the only place possible due to the proximity of the chimney breast and the sloping ceiling. The curtains may not be to everyone's period taste but they were only £15! Thanks all for the advice!

 

[jocelyn plummer]

Well done, the brackets and poles look good, and you can still enjoy the window framework as well during the daytime. Maybe just a touche high, but fixings are always a problem in an old building. Love the night sky behind!