Crumbly oak beams

[whippet]

Hi all.
Would anyone have any suggestions regarding how to smarten up old crumbly beams.
The beams in question were sandblasted having been previously painted with layers of oil and acrylic paints and fillers. They look way better now they've been blasted. However about half of them are very crumbly, in some cases an inch deep. They're are also some big holes the size of a cucumber. In the past these holes have been filled with cements and lime putties. The beams vary quite a bit in colour, and where they are crumbly or particularly holey flecks of white or black paint can be seen in the holes. Any pointers as to how I can treat, unify and vidually improve these beams?
Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

 

[Toby Newell]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaarggghhhhhhhhhhh....

 

[Toby Newell]

1. Invent time machine.
2. DO NOT under any circumstances get your friable beam blasted.
3. Carry on.

 

[malcolm]

That's the best solution above. But it might prove difficult at this stage. Worth posting some photos using the 'attach files' function so we can see what you have.

 

[mardinor]

Google Chesterton's fence, then buy some acrylic paints and filler.

 

[Lacan07]

Google Chesterton's fence, then buy some acrylic paints and filler.

I had to Google this, read the explanation, and immediately a flood of modern examples came rushing into my brain! Brutalist architecture was the first but then some more recent cultural examples which I'll refrain from discussing. You could basically sum up the last decade with Mr Chesterton's fence.

 

[whippet]

Thank you all. Lesson learnt.

 

[Toby Newell]

Thank you all. Lesson learnt.

In all fairness.

1. You have not damaged your beams structurally.
2. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. It may be that your blasted beams whilst having a rough, gritty surface with chunks missing still look better than they did covered in paint.
3. The alternatives would have been a. Leave them as is or b. Scrape and sand them, which would of taken multiple times longer and cost multiple times more. Or c. Cleaned them and app.ied a white chalk paint / limewash (somewhat traditional) or coated them with extra matt dark shellac to remove the painted look.

Blasting is often the only viable solution for this reason, you just have to accept a lot of surface damage and a very rough, porous surface.

You have done nothing wrong and there is no lesson to be learnt, other than companies lie and do not tell you the truth. It is likely not your fault as all companies claim their 'blasting' service is gentle in some way. At least, more gentle than in reality.

In practical terms then (I restore beams and have sanded and cleaned hundreds of metres of them) you can remove the last of the paint and filler in the interstices by scraping with pointy things, I use a number of tools, including DIY dentists tools, bronze liming brushes (Liberon) Sometimes I colour out the white plaster and filler with brown coloured shellac ( shellac + mixol universal stainer colours + artist brush - I use traditional squirrel colouring brushes)

If you want to reduce the rough spongey surface you will have to sand it. This is both messy and time consuming but will leave you with a wonderful, super hard, super smooth surface ( in places with many interstices) I normally finish this with shellac (applied with mixed hair mop) then beeswax and carnauba. This looks unbelievably rich, warm and amazing but may not be the look you are after. I often suggest leaving beams as is or cleaning the dark ones and putting a coat of extra matt semi dope on them to eliminate the shine, then scraping and sanding a few of the bressummers, like the main spine, a main upright or the hearth beam.

This shows of the beauty beneath in one area that you can marvel at and touch and you can imagine the rest. If the beams are dark and oppressive then this doesn't work and sadly blasting is one of the only options.

Personally I think I would paint with white chlak paint rather than blast in this case, but that's me.

I use clear or a very light colour tint if sanded and scraped right back, or if sanding to remove just dirt, dust and paint residue whilst leaving some black colouring, I make up a very matt ( looks uncoated) very dark brown black, semi opaque 'dope' using 33% meths, 33% spb shellac with pigments and spirit dyes and 33% Jenkins' LT12 matting agent. I applied with a mixed (zorino mop) hair brush, a number 10 and no 16 are useful as are a few squirrel colouring brushes. Shellac soaks in and is easier to get into the holes and irregularities as it is so low viscosity, allother finishes are too thick.

Alternatively you can just leave.

Blasting isn't bad per se. It's just that it causes damage and leaves the surface in this state. If this is preferable to the previously painted surface then winner. It's just a shame blasting companies do not explain these things beforehand.

So if you are happy, then great. If not then the remedial work can take weeks or months. This should be explained by the companies. Many people were happy until they send me photos or I turn up and my jaw drops. I feel bad, so please don't.

I have just spent several days stripping and cleaning a bespoke 18 panel 100yr old oak door for half price because the work involved is so much it is partly a labour of love, beams are like that, there is no real solution other than many, many hours of tedious, hard work.

If you do post photos I will not comment out of courtesy.

 

[Toby Newell]

That's the best solution above. But it might prove difficult at this stage. Worth posting some photos using the 'attach files' function so we can see what you have.

 

[whippet]

Thank you. Very kind of you to post such an instructive methodology. A white chalk limewash I think in the worst room and will probably leave in the other rooms for now. To be fair to the blaster, the beams were already in a terrible state, some so bad I'm having to replace them as they've rotten right through, fortunately only the ceiling joists.
Once again thank you. I had no idea if this forum was such a good place for advice. Next time I need some advice I will post before rather than after.

 

[Toby Newell]

To be fair to all decent humans, if your beams were so friable that there were cucumber sized holes and some were so rotten they needed replacing, perhaps, the blaster could of honestly suggested that blasting may not have been the best option.

For example, I don't sand 17mm floors with a large walk around belt sander and I refuse to sand 15mm floors unless I engineer the weak boards.

There is a point where the contractor should politely decline.

 

[Toby Newell]

Just as an aside, from the 1400s to around 1840 exposed beams were usually lime washed.

Some were left natural or oiled in very expensive dwellings, like merchants houses but this was very diificult to maintain.

Every year houses had a spring clean, to clear the soot and tallow from winter heating / light making (fires, candles) This was achieved by washing the entire interior, ceiling and all, with hot lye (powerful alkali akin to oven cleaner made by mixing high temperature white wood ash from a forge with boiling water) This is an effective type of degreaser and paint stripper, thus the whitewash from the walls coated everything, making the wood a dull, brown grey white with white in the grain. This was repeated year after year until the beams were a chalky dark grey.

The lime walls were then repainted with a fresh coat of limewash, which has antibacterial properties.

This is what is referred to as a 'limed' finish and today is replicated very poorly by applying a white pigmented oil. (correct liming is achieved via bronze brushing and liming wax)

Seeing as protecting the beams from this annual onslaught was a fools errand people ended up just limewashing them.

Some fancy places painted their beams when paint was en vogue during the Georgian era (mid c17th - early c18th)

So the period correct colour for most beams is limewash.

From around 1840, so Victorian, (Industrisl Revolution in full swing) we had several million litres of free coal tar as a by product of coke production so from this period many beams were coated black.

From 1900 to 1930 the arts and crafts movement favoured natural or medium stained shellacked, oiled or waxed beams.

After that most people painted them white or more usually black up until the 1980s when people got the bug for stripping wood.

 

[elizabeth]

Thank you Toby, that was interesting to read the phases and influences which changed the treatment and appearance of beams. The yearly spring clean and a fresh coat of limewash both outside and inside must have been quite a chore, the housewives hands must have taken a beating using caustic lye.
We have a lot of elm in our cottage, the ‘poor man’s wood’ I believe, I assume
Henry Vlll used most of the oak for his ships.

 

[Toby Newell]

lol, just quoted for an elm floor, its very rare now, around £500 to £800sqm, a client I quoted for, uber rich eccentric who owns Icomb Place (c11th Doomsday book) cornered the market and bought 900sqm over the last 10 years, the rich eh? Didn't work for him, bit of a noob.

And lol, 90% of old houses are oak.

 

[Toby Newell]

... and lye eats grease, candles were tallow, animal fat, beeswax was a luxury, along with resin from firewood, houses must have been greasy and sooty after the dark, cold months. And lye is alkaline so wouldn't attack lime plaster. Lye was the main cleaning agent for centuries, someone used lye to remove animal fat residue and saw bubbles, thence, soap. Pretty much main cleaner, lye or lye + tallow soap, until start c18th then refined soaps and Sodium carbonate washing soda) up until the 1950s.

Its only since the 1950s we got an explosion of cleaning products, before then 90% of chores were lye, soap, washing soda, spirit of salts, brasso and zeebrite.

 

[Kearn]

Thank you Toby, that was interesting to read the phases and influences which changed the treatment and appearance of beams. The yearly spring clean and a fresh coat of limewash both outside and inside must have been quite a chore, the housewives hands must have taken a beating using caustic lye.
We have a lot of elm in our cottage, the ‘poor man’s wood’ I believe, I assume
Henry Vlll used most of the oak for his ships.

Not necessarily, but it doesn’t fare as well as oak when munched by creepies as they can go all the way through, whereas only the outer soft sapwood gets eaten on oak, so a timber can look terrifying but still be more than structurally sound… the adage is that oak will give you very fair advanced warning if it is going to fail, and does so gradually. Elm on the other hand just snaps… we came very close to buying an elm farmhouse, many reasons we didn’t, but the purlin above the owners bed had done just that, snapped in two. I’m a huge fan of oak, but there was something about the more mellow tone of that elm frame - that is, the bits that hadn’t been sanded to an inch of their lives and Tangoed.

seems a lot less elm buildings are about, presumably due to lack of survival, as before all the disease, many regions had lots of readily available elm.

 

[Toby Newell]

Oak was grown as a structural wood. Britain is only near the top of the world economies due to oak. Oak continues to move even when seasoned for decades, ergo 'swab the main decks' (coat with water) swells the wood, ergo watertight (ship shape) ergo ships strong and don't sink.

Oak ships were the premier miltary technology along with the cannon.

Doesn't explain the French mind you, they had just as much oak.

Agreed, elm munched more, with caveat, oak can get munched all the way through if very damp, especially death watch beetle, but normally as you say, sapwood turns to flaky pastry but heartwood sausage remains rock hard and largely gallery free, especially with common furniture beetle.

I'm spoilt, I get to work on several ancient oak properties so it's more fun for me when I find elm, just quoted for an elm floor in Banbury.

Elm has more quilts and wilder grain so if you stain it for contrast it looks amazing, oak however has more variagation with sapwood and of course elm doesn't have medullary rays. Ancient examples of both are amazing.