Council Tax- exemption??

[glayzell]

I am just voicing my frustration here.

I have just bought a grade 2 listed georgian semi in a right old state, thus needing considerable rennovation. It has been empty for at least 8 years, but the previous owners had done little maintenance in the previous 50 years it seems.

I am currently renting a house 2 doors away while i undergo the renovation. I pay full council tax on the rented property.

I recieved a council tax bill this morning for the georgian house. When i called the council and said the house is empty, nobody is living there and it will be renovated, they told me that there has previously been an exemption on the property and could not be another one. They said they could offer a 10% discount on the council tax.

Anyone else had a similar experience or have any advise?

They are hardlly encouraging people to restore empty houses. I cant understand the logic of having to pay twice.....will i use the police, social services, footpath, road, binman, etc more?

 

[Nemesis]

The Council Tax situation catches everyone with two homes really.

However, although the VAT situation is not simple, there are some works (not repair) which allow for VAT exemption on a listed building, and depending on how long it has been empty then you may be eligible for other VAT reductions as bringing the building back into use.

 

[Mr.C]

You do not have to pay Council Tax for some properties and dwellings.

a. properties which are unoccupied and substantially unfurnished

for up to six months

for up to 12 months, if they are uninhabitable or are undergoing major repair work or structural alterations to make them habitable

b. a property which is unoccupied

for up to six months and which is owned by a charity

because the occupier is in prison (except for non-payment of Council Tax), detained under the Mental Health Acts, in hospital, receiving care in a hospital or home, or receiving personal care elsewhere by reason of old age, disablement or illness

because the occupier has moved in order to provide personal care to another person

since the death of the owner or tenant, and for which the only liable person would be his personal representatives (and up to 6 months after probate or letters of administration have been granted)

because its occupation is forbidden by law

as a caravan pitch or boat mooring

because it is waiting to be occupied by a minister of religion

which was last occupied by the freeholder or tenant who is a student

which has been repossessed, or which is the responsibility of a bankrupt’s trustee

which is an annex (i.e. granny annex) that is unable to be let under planning regulations

which is accommodation for UK armed forces


c. A property which is occupied

only by students

only by severely mentally impaired persons

only by diplomats

only by persons under 18 years of age

as an annex or similar self contained part of a property that is separately banded and is occupied by a relative over 65 years of age, or a disabled relative

as visiting forces accommodation

They should only apply this Tax from the start of the new ownership, not previous history. Tell them to stick this where the sun don't shine and argue the point. Having more than one 'home' should not penalise you for the state of one of them!

Either this, or join the church!

 

[glayzell]

that is interesting, i was aware that i may be able to reclaim some of the vat, but i didnt know about the 'building the building back to use' vat reclaim.

 

[Nemesis]

I'm now a bit rusty about it - I have posted more in the past about it...

It may not be applicable in your case, but it's worth finding out more?

I think the reduction is to five per cent.

It really is intended to bring empty homes back into use - try the Empty Homes Agency?

http://www.emptyhomes.com/index.html

VAT and Listed Buildings - you must have LBC for the work, before you start, and (barmily) it's only for alterations, which covers many things. It's a bit of a minefield.

 

[glayzell]

Thanks Mr C.

When i called them they said if there had been an exemption there could not be another one. This sounds dubious- does this mean there can be one exemption for the whole life of a building, if in 50 years a property is again in need of repair or is empty, there cannot be another exemption?

I was ordained by the 'universal life church' on the internet for a laugh some years ago...i never thought it would come in handy!

I think i will write to them and argue the point. Mr C., could you tell me where your refrences came from?

Cheers

 

[Mr.C]

From my Local Authority.

I am assuming here that this is 'the normal rules' for applying Council Tax. They also say;

'The full Council Tax bill assumes there are two adults living in each property. If only one adult lives in a dwelling (as their main home), the Council Tax bill will be reduced by a quarter (25%). If a property is no-one’s main home, the bill will be reduced by a half (50%). This can apply to second homes and empty properties.'

Good luck.

 

[Nemesis]

Yes that's true - that there is a reduction in those cases. However, what applies and what reductions can be gained may well depend on the individual situation. Always ask though for reasons in writing from a local authority.


Re VAT - from the SAVE Building at Risk book:

'...the Government reduced VAT on refurbishing properties that have been empty for more than three years to 5%'

There may however be restrictions on this, regarding who can claim.

For properties empty for over ten years, there may be more reduction.

Don't get too excited, but worth checking out.

Jon Maine wrote an interesting article re vAT for this year's BaR book.

Here he has posted info on the BBC website:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/actionnetwork/A2901593

 

[wobs]

I was once told that if you ripped out your toilet of a house that you were doing up but weren't living in, it would deem it uninhabitable. Don't know how true this is.

 

[Nemesis]

Then it could be condemned...

 

[Mr.C]

.................... and because its occupation is forbidden by law, no Council Tax!


S O R T ED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


........... NEXT.

 

[Nemesis]

Listen to Pathfinders. That could happen - no home, so no Council Tax.

 

[Anonymous]

There's an evening lecture soon about the how the UK VAT system doesn't provide incentives for owners to maintain their historic properties in London at The Art Workers Guild. Monday 20th November.

 

[glayzell]

seriously, you think if i take out the tiolet it cant be lived in therefore no council tax.

 

[Nemesis]

I wouldn't chance making it deliberately uninhabitable - you may find all manner of problems and restrictions in trying then to bring it back into use.

Presumably all work being carried out has LBC so that may help a little with some VAT exemption.

The VAT and historic buildings issue is a long running one - which all amenity societies have been trying to rectify for many years. The situtaion where VAT is charged on repair (and not just listed buildings) is crazy.

The Chancellor missed a great opprtunity to try to rectify the situation this year, Heritage Link is ploughing on with the issue.

 

[sarahj]

Don't forget to ensure the CT banding reflects the condition of the building. We recently looked at a mid terrace house that had been renovated and the owner was promoting the fact that it was only in band B where all the rest were in D, due to the condition of it when he bought it. unfortunately he forgot to mention that the band would have been upgraded to a D when he sold it. But this could work for you in a similar way!

 

[Jill]

When we bought the house next door in March 2005 before we knocked it into one we were exempt from council tax for 6 months, because it was empty. Apparently a house can only be rebanded when it is sold. We asked the guy who came round to do the rebanding evaluation about this as a friend had just built an extension which nearly doubled the size. This house will stop with its original banding even with the extension.

 

[bower1]

I had a similar problem last year. I found out that if you 'MOVE' back in for 6 weeks, you can then start a new exemption. No idea if they actually check that you have moved in, we didn't need to do it in the end, but the information did come from our local council tax office (after much pushing, they won't give anything away). You will have to pay the full 100% rate during that 6 weeks, not the 90% rate.