Could this have been a door?

[charlieboy]

Part of our house is sandstone and is probably 400 years old or more. Facing the road is a small window which seems to be fairly recent but underneath it there is what appears to be a blocked up door. The two sandstone blocks you can see in the photo are a slightly different colour and are not bonded with the rest of the stonework although the mortar seems identical.
If it was a door then that door would only have been 16 inches (or less) wide and its position nearly at the corner seems very odd. Has anyone any ideas what it could have been?

CB

The whole house can be viewed on google street-view at the link below

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.6342068,-2.4474063,3a,75y,107.49h,86.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skuN-rLhXg0O9-99v4CJctQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

[Pennyviz]

Hmmm, love puzzles! One can only theorise though of course. Perhaps several phases, the first phase had a much larger opening for carriage, with the lintel running across from the top of the new window. This was then all filled in. At some point this was all then rendered. The render was then removed. Perhaps a large stone pillar or post for supporting lintel and/or a gate could have been there? this was then reused and window and mores blocks infilled.

Penny

 

[Socksitis]

I cannot see any remnants of a lintel, also I would question the positioning of any opening in a gable end. It almost looks as though the house underwent a repair, the stone work changes as it goes higher. Does the census taken during the 1800's suggest the house was empty for a period of time?

 

[Pennyviz]

I cannot see any remnants of a lintel, also I would question the positioning of any opening in a gable end. It almost looks as though the house underwent a repair, the stone work changes as it goes higher. Does the census taken during the 1800's suggest the house was empty for a period of time?

Thinner line of stones above window.

Penny

 

[Socksitis]

thinner line of stones - interesting. How would that make the lintel? Perhaps it is different across the country? Would there have been a wooden or stone lintel behind the thinner line of stones then?

 

[Pennyviz]

thinner line of stones - interesting. How would that make the lintel? Perhaps it is different across the country? Would there have been a wooden or stone lintel behind the thinner line of stones then?

No I just meant that there was line where the lintel might have been, I assume that most would fill in from bottom and then reuse lintel. The picture I put up was from of the 'midden' probably dating from about similar period to demonstrate openings in gable end, here is a slightly better pic, it goes almost the full width of the building.

I also attach a couple of pics of doorways in various stages of infilling to show what I mean.

 

[Pennyviz]

 

[charlieboy]

Thanks for your thoughts on my possible door.
One problem is that I don’t know what the stone part of my house was built as. It is just a square room about 16 foot internally with a cellar and a first floor. Nothing remains of any original doors or fireplaces. The first floor at one time had three windows. One can be seen in the view from the road which has been bricked up and the other two were dormer type facing north and south along the direction of the road. It almost has the feel of a small barn or store room but if this was the case I would not expect it to have a cellar. There is what remains of some timber framing internally. It could be that the stone part was an extension to a timber framed house.

Back to the possible doorway – Did anyone build doors only 16 inches wide 400 years ago? And if so why would they want such a narrow door.

Yes - There is a course of narrower blocks at the level of the top of the window. I had presumed that the builder had just used up all the larger ones and used the smaller ones while he waited for the builders merchant (or quarryman) to send the next pallet (or cartload) of larger ones.
CB

 

[TheForge]

Hi Charlie,

I guess it could have been, 16" doors are not uncommon, we have a similar sized one between the house and our forge from 1750ish, but I don't think there's any evidence in the stonework to suggest it for definite.

I'd say the brick infill at first floor level could have been a door, how tall is the infill?

What's the history of the house/gable? Why is the patch unrendered? Could the building have once extended over the road?

Do you know Tony Mugridge? He lives in Madeley and has a wealth of knowledge on brickwork, local history and vernacular buildings, he might have some ideas or knowledge on it.

 

[Greg.Hobson]

It almost has the feel of a small barn or store room but if this was the case I would not expect it to have a cellar.

Hi Charlie.

Regarding the existence of a cellar in a barn. We are reliably informed that our house was originally (1840-ish) a barn before being converted to 2 cottages (c.1900) then to a single house (c.1937). It has a cellar under one of the downstairs rooms and this is, AFAIK, part of the original structure and was originally reached from inside the building, but that access is now closed off and it is only accessible from outside.

I have often wondered whether this is at all commonplace, so your set up gives me some degree of confidence that it did indeed happen that some barns were built with a cellar or at least some storage space on a lower level.

GSH

 

[Kearn]

The two sandstone blocks you can see in the photo are a slightly different colour and are not bonded with the rest of the stonework although the mortar seems identical.

From what is visible on Streetview, (and thats my caveat!!), quite a number of the blocks look different, not just the two beneath. I would say that the full lower two courses plus a few more above alongside the window, are far more uniform and sharper shaped stones that higher up in the wall, they also look to have smoother faces with less obvious chisel marks. Initially that would indicate to me a potentially wider opening to begin with, especially if this was an industrial/outbuilding on the ground level where access would be required for animals/machinery etc to be moved in/out.

The first floor opening also looks like it goes to floor level based on the window round the RHS of the building, possible loading door rather than window?

 

[charlieboy]

Thanks again for all your thoughts on this.

“The first floor opening also looks like it goes to floor level based on the window round the RHS of the building”

The first floor bricked up opening was definitely just a window and not a door. The floor level in the stone part of the house is much lower than the rest of the house. I am sure that this opening is not an original feature as there is no evidence of a lintel and the bricked up part did not have exactly vertical sides.

“Regarding the existence of a cellar in a barn”

Strangely the stone blocks in the cellar seem to be of better quality than those visible from the road. They are smoother and more rectangular. This suggests to me that perhaps the whole stone part of the building used reclaimed stone.

“What's the history of the house/gable? Why is the patch unrendered? Could the building have once extended over the road?”

I bought the house three years ago but I remember it from 35 years prior to that. At that time render covered the whole house. The owners made enamel miniatures and silver jewellery which they exhibited to passers-by in the small window on the road. I think they liked the idea that it was a very old house and when it was rerendered in the 1970’s they left any stone parts without render. Many of the locals imagine that there was once another part of the building sticking out into the road. This was not the case. If you look at this image you will see that the parapet is 10 feet high on the stone part. The house is in the middle of the image. https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.6341249,-2.4491201,125a,35y,90h,45t/data=!3m1!1e3

“Do you know Tony Mugridge”

Yes, I know Tony and he has given me a lot to think about! I invited him to look at some octagonal quarry tiles which seemed to me to be very unusual. He agreed and then spent nearly four hours talking me through many of the other features of the house. This included his opinion that the bricks in the hearth in the living room may be more than 500 years old and even told me the name of the brickmaker!

“Does the census taken during the 1800's suggest the house was empty for a period of time”

The census information is fascinating. In 1841 the house was lived in by the widow of William Ferriday, a local ironmaster, and two of their daughters. She must have moved out of one of the local big houses (Upper House) when her husband dies. When the last daughter dies in about 1879 she leaves an estate of £6000. This would have been enough to purchase two whole farms when they were sold 50 years later.

Pennyviz – On your photos it is easy to see where doors have been bricked up and replaced with windows but on my stone wall the only thing that looks like it was formerly a door is under that small window.

CB

 

[DavidB]

Could it have been a door / hatch for unloading coal being stored in the cellar?
I also note that embedded in the tarmac on the pavement outside is a square material that looks like aggregate and cement - might indicate that there was another part of the building there at some stage...?

 

[charlieboy]

I had not considered a coal hole. There are no signs of coal ever having been stored down the cellar, No coal dust or anything else to suggest coal had been stored there.
The cellar is slightly smaller than the room above. If it had been a hole for coal it would not have reached the cellar.
The road level has got higher over the years and would originally been about 12 inches lower. The quarry tiles you can just see at the bottom of the wall were an attempt at a vertical damp course. The concrete slabs are slightly sloping and keep most of the rain water away from the building.
CB